Hyrum Smith and Polygamy: Same story, two perspectives...

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_cinepro
_Emeritus
Posts: 4502
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:15 pm

Hyrum Smith and Polygamy: Same story, two perspectives...

Post by _cinepro »

Hyrum Smith didn't like polygamy...and then he did.

Here's the same story, two different ways.

First, anti-Mormon George Smith in his book "Nauvoo Polygamy":

Although he is known to have initially opposed polygamy, he finally gave in and married his first wife's sister, Mercy Fielding Thompson, on August 11, 1843, followed by Catharine Phillips and, evidently, Lydia Dibble Granger that same month, then Louisa Sanger on September 17 - a total of four plural wives in just over a month.

Hyrum had denounced the pervasive rumors regarding his brother's involvement with women as late as May 14, 1843, yet it appears that he may have performed some sealings before this date at which time Joseph had already married twenty-four supernumerary wives and convinced eleven other men to go and do likewise. But before indulging in the practice himself, Hyrum had proclaimed that "many wifes & concubines" was an "abomination in the Sight of God" and that "if an angel should come and preach such doctrine, someone would be sure to see his cloven foot and cloud of blackness over his head." A week later, Joseph's secretary, Willard Richards, warned that "a plot" was "being laid" by "bro H and others," with the intent to "entrap the brethren" with women. The previous year, Hyrum had publicly defended the prophet and his ever-reliable senior apostle, Brigham Young, against accusations of improper proposals to Martha Brotherton, Sarah Pratt and Nancy Rigdon.

Hyrum's May exhortation against the "abomination" he detected in the church came only two months before the revelation on plural marriage. Surprisingly, Hyrum experienced an abrupt change of heart by August and would be the one to announce his brother's revelation to the Nauvoo High Council. To persuade his skeptical older brother, Joseph had told Hyrum that if he embraced the doctrine, he could have his deceased wife, Jerusha Barden, sealed to him in the next world. In addition, he could have his current wife, Mary Fielding, sealed to him as an eternal companion. And furthermore, if he wished, he could have his wife's sister Mercy sealed to him, as well. Hyrum appeared to be tempted. To influence his deliberations, Brigham confided to Hyrum that his brother Joseph had "many wives."

"Nauvoo Polygamy: ...but We Called It Celestial Marriage", page 335


Now, here it is as told by Truman Madsen:

Madsen on Joseph Smith's Marriages

I thought the contrast was interesting.

It's also a good example of the advantage the Church has if it takes an proactive approach to "inoculation" in its history. If people get the "birds chirping in the background" version of these stories, they'll be less bothered when they get the "Hyrum appeared to be tempted..." version.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Dr. Shades
_Emeritus
Posts: 14117
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm

Re: Hyrum Smith and Polygamy: Same story, two perspectives...

Post by _Dr. Shades »

cinepro wrote:Now, here it is as told by Truman Madsen:

Madsen on Joseph Smith's Marriages

I thought the contrast was interesting.

Madsen is lying. He said that Eliza R. Snow had been sealed to Joseph with Emma's permission. That was not the case.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Ray A

Re: Hyrum Smith and Polygamy: Same story, two perspectives...

Post by _Ray A »

Give Madsen the floor and he could make terrorism sound like a divinely inspired principle.
_Yoda

Re: Hyrum Smith and Polygamy: Same story, two perspectives...

Post by _Yoda »

Ray A wrote:Give Madsen the floor and he could make terrorism sound like a divinely inspired principle.


LOL
_truth dancer
_Emeritus
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm

Re: Hyrum Smith and Polygamy: Same story, two perspectives...

Post by _truth dancer »

Ray A wrote:Give Madsen the floor and he could make terrorism sound like a divinely inspired principle.


Not too difficult... much of the world is convinced that God commanded Moses and Joshua and their armies to slaughter babies, children, and everyone but the virgin girls who they could use for their sexual purposes.

Seems many people will believe what they feel they must and are happy to have an excuse to rationalize perverted/sick/cruel behavior.

Shame on those who manipulate and twist the truth so others will believe lies.
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_Ray A

Re: Hyrum Smith and Polygamy: Same story, two perspectives...

Post by _Ray A »

As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as young men holding the priesthood of God, you have a tremendous obligation toward the girl you marry. Perhaps you are not thinking much of that now. But the time isn’t far away when you will think of it, and now is the time to prepare for that most important day of your lives when you take unto yourself a wife and companion equal with you before the Lord.

That obligation begins with absolute loyalty. As the old Church of England ceremony says, you will marry her “for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, for better or for worse.” She will be yours and yours alone, regardless of the circumstances of your lives. You will be hers and hers alone. There can be eyes for none other. There must be absolute loyalty, undeviating loyalty one to another. Hopefully you will marry her forever, in the house of the Lord, under the authority of the everlasting priesthood. Through all the days of your lives, you must be as true one to another as the polar star.

The girl you marry can expect you to come to the marriage altar absolutely clean. She can expect you to be a young man of virtue in thought and word and deed.


Gordon B. Hinckley, Living Worthy of the Girl You Will Someday Marry.

Then reactions upon coming across Mormon Enigma:

Image

Image
_Inconceivable
_Emeritus
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:44 am

Re: Hyrum Smith and Polygamy: Same story, two perspectives...

Post by _Inconceivable »

Dr. Shades wrote:
cinepro wrote:Now, here it is as told by Truman Madsen:

Madsen on Joseph Smith's Marriages

I thought the contrast was interesting.

Madsen is lying. He said that Eliza R. Snow had been sealed to Joseph with Emma's permission. That was not the case.

Apparently, Smith had the mock marriage done a second time. This time with Emma present.

Can you imagine how your bride would feel if she found out you were already having a relationship with one (actually 2) of her counselors in the General Relief Society? Who's idea was this? Smith's? the Mormon God's? Peer pressure?

Eliza - Mistress to the prophets: Never really married legally to anyone.

Interesting how Eliza is known as Eliza R. Snow instead of ..Young, ..Smith or even a hyphenated Eliza Smith Young - Snow. What is the message here?

Hyrum Smith - No Passes.
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Hyrum Smith and Polygamy: Same story, two perspectives...

Post by _Chap »

Ray A wrote:
As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as young men holding the priesthood of God, you have a tremendous obligation toward the girl you marry. Perhaps you are not thinking much of that now. But the time isn’t far away when you will think of it, and now is the time to prepare for that most important day of your lives when you take unto yourself a wife and companion equal with you before the Lord.

That obligation begins with absolute loyalty. As the old Church of England ceremony says, you will marry her “for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, for better or for worse.” She will be yours and yours alone, regardless of the circumstances of your lives. You will be hers and hers alone. There can be eyes for none other. There must be absolute loyalty, undeviating loyalty one to another. Hopefully you will marry her forever, in the house of the Lord, under the authority of the everlasting priesthood. Through all the days of your lives, you must be as true one to another as the polar star.

The girl you marry can expect you to come to the marriage altar absolutely clean. She can expect you to be a young man of virtue in thought and word and deed.


Gordon B. Hinckley, Living Worthy of the Girl You Will Someday Marry.

Will someone explain to me how the bolded portions of this text can be read as consistent with the possibility that the young man in question could have other eternal companions sealed to him in due course? After all, in this marriage he is to have "eyes for her alone" and this relationship is to endure "forever".

So does not this prophetic teaching on a subject vital to the life and faith of ordinary LDS imply that if any LDS males are expecting to be polygamous in the after-life, they are just plain wrong?


Edited to add:

But presumably Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and all the other 19th century polygamists cannot be deprived of the company of all their wives in the Celestial Kingdom, can they? Clearly therefore the CK will be a two-class society, with lots of wives for those who died before a certain date, and only one each for those after the date of the prophetic teaching given above (or from some earlier date yet to be determined, presumably after the death of the last 'legitimate' polygamist in the Utah church).

Or am I in some way confused here? Please explain, if you can.
_ludwigm
_Emeritus
Posts: 10158
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:07 am

Re: Hyrum Smith and Polygamy: Same story, two perspectives...

Post by _ludwigm »

Chap wrote:
... Hopefully you will marry her forever, in the house of the Lord, under the authority of the everlasting priesthood. ...
Gordon B. Hinckley, Living Worthy of the Girl You Will Someday Marry.
...
So does not this prophetic teaching on a subject vital to the life and faith of ordinary LDS imply that if any LDS males are expecting to be polygamous in the after-life, they are just plain wrong?
...
Or am I in some way confused here? Please explain, if you can.


Wait a minute. Gordon B. Hinckley is dead.
President Ezra Taft Benson, Of the Quorum of the Twelve wrote: in Liahona » 1981 » June - First Presidency Message : Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
Don't recline upon private opinions!
So, the next official (?) words come from Thomas S. Monson. He will straighten up everything.

Wait a minute again. Ezra T. Benson is dead.
Should we get his words as scripture? Or was it a private opinion?

Or am I in similar way confused here? Please explain, if you can.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Post Reply