Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

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_Jason Bourne
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Re: Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

Post by _Jason Bourne »

1. I don't think we have any economists in our upper leadership, so they were as unpleasantly surprised as the rest of us at how bad it is. I mean, what good does it do to have a direct line to God, if you don't understand what he's trying to tell you?


Most economists were surprised by this down turn as well. A few, like the fellow Peter Schiff I mentioned on another thread were not
2. This may be the Big One that our leaders have been predicting for years, telling us to get our food supply, have 3 months of savings, update your resume and (for the women) dust off your degree. Of course, they said the same thing back in the early 80's when inflation went over 20%, at 9/11, and every time the market has hiccuped since. The old "cry wolf" lesson comes to mind. At some point, people stop listening.


And those in the early 80s who did what the LDS prophets encouraged probably were better off. How can this by crying wolf? The late 70s and early 80s were tough. And really the advice to get out of debt, store some food, have some money is good advice any time.
3. Predicting the downfall hasn't been hard. Getting some revelation on how to survive the downfall isn't forthcoming.


What is the advice on home storage?

And I think the reason why is that, personally, I don't think our comfort and material possessions matter much to God. People in Haiti get along just fine without the vast majority of our material possessions, so why should God care about our big screen tv's with the same intensity as their unplumbed huts?


If you think the people in Haiti get along just fine you should look again. How many people die in Haiti when a bad storm comes through vs. how many die in the US in a similar storm. Material possessions like a decent house, infrastructure to deal with the storms, a system for evacuation all make a difference. However, other than gaining information about the coming calmity TVs don's help.
4. I think the church is going to hunker down. They might have to dip into their reserves in order to make it through. With the higher numbers of unemployed, there will be less tithing, and there will more and more impact on the bishop's storehouse. Those of us who are still working will be asked to up our contributions, and that will likely be the extent of the revelations.


As a good Christian should do for there fellow beings.

I can't see the church opening the doors of the money vault and start using to help the poor. This isn't going to hurt the leadership, and except for a lipservice talk or two in conference, they aren't going to pay much attention. How much do you want to bet we get at least one talk on tithing, one talk on the importance of fast offerings, and one talk about the members helping their neighbors in need?


The Church's primary means of helping the poor is FO assistance and that is significant and will increase. And sure we should here some encouragement to help out.
_Analytics
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Re: Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

Post by _Analytics »

Mormon theology states that about 6,000 years ago Adam fell, introducing physical death to the world. It teaches that in a bit over 1,000 years from now, the Millennium will be over and the earth will have fulfilled the measure of its purpose, and then will be rolled up like a scroll and will turn into a giant, glassy urim and thummim. It teaches that over those 7,000 years of the earth’s mortal existence, the primary directive of humanity is to multiply.

If somebody really believes that Armageddon and Jesus Christ’s glorious return are neigh upon us, why would you expect them to do anything other than mock futurology?

Let’s all sing together now.

Ev'ry day the world is getting smaller by far!
Bursting at the seams, what can we do?
Zero population is the answer, my friend!
Without it the rest of us are doomed!

(chorus)
Who can survive? Who can survive?
Not one of us will be alive!
Who can be strong? Who can be strong?
When ev'ry inch is gone!

Who can survive? Who can survive?
Not one of us will be alive!
Who can be strong? Who can be strong?
When mother earth is gone?

Ev'ry day the food supply is shrinking away!
With starvation at our door what can we do?
Licensing of children is the answer, my friend!
Without it, the rest of us are through!

(chorus)
Who can survive? Who can survive?
Not one of us will be alive!
Who can be strong? Who can be strong?
When all the food is gone?

Who can survive? Who can survive?
Not one of us will be alive!
Who can be strong? Who can be strong?
When ev'ry crumb is gone?

Tragedy our oil is depleating each day!
Ev'ry baby makes it last a shorter time!
Legalized abortion is the answer, my friend!
Without it, there is no peace of mind!

(chorus)
Who can survive? Who can survive?
Not one of us will be alive!
Who can be strong? Who can be strong?
When all the oil is gone!

Who can survive? Who can survive?
Not one of us will be alive!
Who can be strong? Who can be strong?
When energy is gone?

Zero population is the answer my friend.
Without it the rest of us are doomed.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_The Nehor
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Re: Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

Post by _The Nehor »

truth dancer wrote:Actually, I'm really thinking more about prophets than God :wink: They seem completely, utterly oblivious as to what is coming. I have yet to hear any of the leaders of the church address the serious issues we are and will be facing in the near future. Going to the temple is not going to impact humankind in any serious or even minimal way. Not drinking tea is about as far down a concern as dusting a chandelier on the Titanic.


What serious issues are you referring to?

Temple gets people out of hell, may not help the living but then we never claimed it did. I haven't heard a lot of 'not drinking tea' talks in GC lately. I have seen alcohol and drug abuse turn some of my friends from great people into wasted shells of people so I still consider the Word of Wisdom important.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_truth dancer
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Re: Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

Post by _truth dancer »

Hey Shades...

So. . . what number of earrings should men wear to church?


Last I heard men were not to have any body piercings nor were they to wear any earrings to church. :wink:

Hey Jason,

LDS Prophets would argue that is society would follow their guidance about the nuclear family, moral issues and obedience to God civilization would be avoiding many of the ills it now faces.


I'm really not talking about any "ills". I'm talking about how humankind is going to adapt, how society is going to evolve, and how life is going to emerge; basically how our planetary family will survive and move into the world that is coming.

The transformation is going to be beyond anything that has occurred in human history... the prophets, for all intents and purposes, are completely quiet on the topic.

A few thoughts on food storage. Unless the world no longer is able to produce food, I don't see how a year supply of food storage is a good idea. It tends to rot, it takes a lot of space, it is not fresh, and it is difficult to move.

When I lived in San Francisco, pretty much everyone lost all their canned goods in a thirty second earthquake. The Katrina survivors couldn't take their food storage with them. A fire, flood, or tornado would destroy any stored food. If you have to evacuate, food storage is worthless.

in my opinion, better to have a week or so of food for the 98% of emergencies that last three days or less, and extra funds in the bank for a rainy day.

Also, being prepared for an emergency is not exactly something that must come by revelation. Pretty much every human since hunter gatherer times has known it is important to prepare for limited resources.

Why have prophets if their advice is basic common sense known by humankind the world over? And what is the purpose of revelation if God's advice is nothing different than that of the Red Cross?

But I go back to the bigger questions concerning humankind facing a new future.

~td~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_truth dancer
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Re: Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

Post by _truth dancer »

I haven't heard a lot of 'not drinking tea' talks in GC lately.


Guess you didn't read this month's Ensign.
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
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Re: Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

Post by _The Nehor »

truth dancer wrote:
I haven't heard a lot of 'not drinking tea' talks in GC lately.


Guess you didn't read this month's Ensign.


I read the whole thing and don't remember any talks on tea. Was this one of those sweet stories in the back?

Also still curious as to what serious issues you want the Prophet to comment on.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Analytics
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Re: Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

Post by _Analytics »

truth dancer wrote:I'm really not talking about any "ills". I'm talking about how humankind is going to adapt, how society is going to evolve, and how life is going to emerge; basically how our planetary family will survive and move into the world that is coming.

The transformation is going to be beyond anything that has occurred in human history... the prophets, for all intents and purposes, are completely quiet on the topic.

Not completely. Not that long ago President Faust said the following in a first presidency message:
I next address the present-day challenge to the words of the Lord recorded in Genesis: “Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.” All my life I have heard the argument that the earth is overpopulated. Much controversy surrounded a 1994 United Nations International Conference on Population and Development held in Cairo, Egypt. No doubt the conference accomplished much that was worthwhile. But at the very center of the debate was the socially acceptable phrase “sustainable growth.” This concept is becoming increasingly popular. How cleverly Satan masked his evil designs with that phrase.

Few voices in the developed nations cry out in the wilderness against this coined phrase, “sustainable growth.” In Forbes magazine a thoughtful editorial asserts that people are an asset, not a liability. It forthrightly declares as preposterous the broadly accepted premise that curbing population growth is essential for economic development. This editorial then states convincingly, “Free people don’t ‘exhaust’ resources. They create them.”

An article in U.S. News & World Report entitled “10 Billion for Dinner, Please” states that the earth is capable of producing food for a population of at least eighty billion, eight times the ten billion expected to inhabit the earth by the year 2050. One study estimates that with improved scientific methods the earth could feed as many as one thousand billion people. Those who argue for sustainable growth lack vision and faith. The Lord said, “For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare.” That settles the issue for me. It should settle the issue for all of us. The Lord has spoken.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_truth dancer
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Posts: 4792
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Re: Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

Post by _truth dancer »

Hey Analytics... :biggrin:

I must admit I was wrong... the prophets have spoken!

Nehor...

I read the whole thing and don't remember any talks on tea. Was this one of those sweet stories in the back?


Not sure the page number... maybe you need to reread the Ensign.

Also still curious as to what serious issues you want the Prophet to comment on.


I don't want your prophet to comment (or not comment) on any issue, serious or otherwise.

I would hope that if there really was someone who was in communion with the God of the Universe, she or he (or they), would give us a little heads up on what is ahead and how we can best prepare for it.

But for now, thankfully we have some smart women and men who are helping us out!

~td~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_Mercury
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Re: Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

Post by _Mercury »

liz3564 wrote:There have been challenges in my life when I have keenly felt the presence of my deceased grandmothers guiding me through. Who knows? Maybe it's just my way of coming up with a survival technique, but it works for me.


Memory is a powerful tool we can use to resurrect our dead relatives in service of coping with our various challenges in life, for sure. I think its healthy...

...as long as we interpret it correctly :)
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_The Nehor
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Re: Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

Post by _The Nehor »

truth dancer wrote:I don't want your prophet to comment (or not comment) on any issue, serious or otherwise.

I would hope that if there really was someone who was in communion with the God of the Universe, she or he (or they), would give us a little heads up on what is ahead and how we can best prepare for it.

But for now, thankfully we have some smart women and men who are helping us out!

~td~


Here, I'll pass on this tidbit, "Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." A little heads up on what is ahead and how to prepare for it. You are welcome. :)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
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