In defense of the LDS Church

[_Gazelam]

John Larsen:

Homosexuality is not inherently immoral.

Uhm...... What?

[_The Nehor]

Homosexuality is not inherently immoral.

I disagree with that. My problem is that it seemed to imply that disparaging homosexuals was overly moral and that therefore too much morality is dangerous. The cure to defects in morality is more morality, not less.

[_EAllusion]

Well, the problem is that homosexuality is not immoral per se and, moreover, the LDS Churchs views on and actions towards homosexuals is immoral. The problem people were talking about there wasn't too much morality, but rather a lack of morals. Sometimes we talk about "moralism" negatively in a sense that it improperly makes moral issues out of behavior where there is none. For instance, I generally think one's choice of reading material per se in almost any circumstance is a morally neutral thing. Some others might think it is always right or wrong to read a given item. My problem would not be that they are "too moral," though I might mistakenly put it that way. Instead, I think they've overextended the range of moral concern.

[_John Larsen]

Homosexuality is not inherently immoral.

I disagree with that. My problem is that it seemed to imply that disparaging homosexuals was overly moral and that therefore too much morality is dangerous. The cure to defects in morality is more morality, not less.

How is homosexuality inherently immoral? What defects in morality are you talking about?

[_The Nehor]

How is homosexuality inherently immoral? What defects in morality are you talking about?

1. It is in defiance of divine will.
2. It is almost always polyamorous and there are VERY few monogamous homosexual couples. Many that claim monogamy mean emotional monogamy and have some form of getting sex on the side, often with partner's permission.
3. It cuts off the fountain of life and prevents reproduction.
4. It is more often associated with perversion then heterosexual relationships.
5. This is an observed behavior but homosexual relationships seem to be more about sex then commitment and love.

I think that is enough to start. I consider it a dangerous phenomenon. Rampant homosexuality is not a new thing. In history it was always eventually removed from public acceptance again and labeled immoral again. Why? I suspect people were unhappy by the social effects of the practice and drove it away. I can only hope that history will repeat itself.

[_John Larsen]

How is homosexuality inherently immoral? What defects in morality are you talking about?

1. It is in defiance of divine will.

As you see it. Others believe their homosexual relationships have divine blessing.

2. It is almost always polyamorous and there are VERY few monogamous homosexual couples. Many that claim monogamy mean emotional monogamy and have some form of getting sex on the side, often with partner's permission.

Bull. You just made that up.

3. It cuts off the fountain of life and prevents reproduction.

Members of the Church do this all of the time. Besides that, some couples are infertile, that doesn't lessen their relationship in the eyes of God.

4. It is more often associated with perversion then heterosexual relationships.

Ha Ha. Define perversion. You are just being tautological here.

5. This is an observed behavior but homosexual relationships seem to be more about sex then commitment and love.

I attend a welcoming Church. I can tell you that there are many committed homosexual relationships that move well beyond sex. Also, there are many heterosexual relationships only interested in sex. It is fair to say that this behavior is on both sides of the fence and you cannot single one group out for the irrational behavior of a few.

I think that is enough to start. I consider it a dangerous phenomenon. Rampant homosexuality is not a new thing. In history it was always eventually removed from public acceptance again and labeled immoral again. Why? I suspect people were unhappy by the social effects of the practice and drove it away. I can only hope that history will repeat itself.

The condemnation of homosexuality is usually corresponds with some kind of cultural dark age.

[_The Nehor]

2. It is almost always polyamorous and there are VERY few monogamous homosexual couples. Many that claim monogamy mean emotional monogamy and have some form of getting sex on the side, often with partner's permission.

Bull. You just made that up.

No, I didn't. Unless you buy into the idea that monogamy allows three-ways. The closed gay monogamous relationship is the exception, not the rule. Are you close enough friends with any gay people to know anything about the lifestyle that has grown up around it? I am.

An example:

http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/g ... ever-after

[_The Nehor]

4. It is more often associated with perversion then heterosexual relationships.

Ha Ha. Define perversion. You are just being tautological here.

Sure, I'll give a few examples. Scat, hardcore BDSM, human toilet training, pain play, and many other things I consider to be perversions. (Warning: Do not Google unless you really want to know)

These things are much more common in the homosexual community then the heterosexual community by a huge margin.

[_The Nehor]

I think that is enough to start. I consider it a dangerous phenomenon. Rampant homosexuality is not a new thing. In history it was always eventually removed from public acceptance again and labeled immoral again. Why? I suspect people were unhappy by the social effects of the practice and drove it away. I can only hope that history will repeat itself.

The condemnation of homosexuality is usually corresponds with some kind of cultural dark age.

I agree that the two things seem related but they also seem to happen at the same time that civilizations fall. Which causes which?

[_John Larsen]

Ha Ha. Define perversion. You are just being tautological here.

Sure, I'll give a few examples. Scat, hardcore BDSM, human toilet training, pain play, and many other things I consider to be perversions. (Warning: Do not Google unless you really want to know)

These things are much more common in the homosexual community then the heterosexual community by a huge margin.

All of these things are available to the heterosexual world also. You have not made any case linking them to homosexuality.