Prophets, Revelation, and Extreme Future

[_Roger Morrison]

Your rambling post blames God for everything. You know the song " I never promised you a rose garden." That's life man. Get used to it. Do you have kids? Do you save them from every potential painful experience? How do they learn if you do?

I don't have all the answers and some of what you post challenges my faith. But I do believe that God is not there to fix everything for us and life is full of pain.

Do you even have faith in any God?

Jas, I hope you'll pardon my intrusion... But Incon is not alone with his expectations of "God". The idea of the All-Powerful-God is held by the vast majority of Believers of all stripes. Which some-what bases TD's OP.

"Why doesn't a loving God step in and correct all of the injustices & evils?" Many answers that comfort some and infuriate others... Resolves little.

Might this dilema be attributed to the misinformation and ignorance that wraps traditional Christianity? While you admit to not having all the answers, are those that you do have, and that are challenged, a product of your heritage? Or are they of your own educated thinking processes?

I'll pick-up your question to Incon: "Do you even have faith in any God?"

Yes. In the "God" of Universal order. To me, that is the one I trust with the tides, the seasons, the planets, photosynthesis... Unprejudiced with natural resources... Impartial in revealing truths to those who worked to discover them in the past... The same kind of folks will continue to discover hidden things that will enhance the future...

Sound like a Secular God? Could be that was/is the "God" the man Jesus attempted to introduce when he disrupted the Temple and told the God-reps of his day that they, "...didn't know God..."

Been a long quest. Not helped by the resistance and denial of the Religious Establishment dependendent upon perpetuating the mythology... I think...
Roger
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[_Jason Bourne]

TD,

Sorry for the slight derail, I'll start a new thread for Jason and I

Your comments and mine were on point. The post talks about God, prophets, etc. It addresses issues that can be argued whether God should tell us about or not and just what his involvement is. TD seems to think God should tell us about the impact of all the potential changes in technology as well as socioeconomic issues. She may be right.

However, it seems to me, that the God of religion views things long term and eternally. This life is all we know for sure. But it is not all God knows. If the God of religion is real then it seems that He/it has not been to concerned about our comfort here. Rather preaching repentance and salvation in the eternal world has been His focus.

I am not saying that TD is not right to expect more. And maybe the fact that the God of religion, particularly Judeo/Christian faiths, has been focused on some very basic things and not to worried about other things that seem important is indicative that a lot about this God is man made.

On the other hand maybe the things TD and you seem to want really are not all that important in the eternal scheme of things.

[_Jason Bourne]

Jas, I hope you'll pardon my intrusion... But Incon is not alone with his expectations of "God". The idea of the All-Powerful-God is held by the vast majority of Believers of all stripes. Which some-what bases TD's OP.

No problem.

"Why doesn't a loving God step in and correct all of the injustices & evils?" Many answers that comfort some and infuriate others... Resolves little.

Yes this is a dilemma.

Might this dilema be attributed to the misinformation and ignorance that wraps traditional Christianity? While you admit to not having all the answers, are those that you do have, and that are challenged, a product of your heritage? Or are they of your own educated thinking processes?

Yes of course. My personal view of God has been more modified. I think God, if he is real, it far removed and not much into intervening at all. I had this discussion the other day. When something bad happened in her work I said, did you give God credit? She said no. I said why? He gets credit for anything good. He should get credit for the bad stuff too. She said the bad stuff comes because we are unrighteous. I said well sometimes maybe but the Bible says it rains on the just and unjust.

[_truth dancer]

TD,

Sorry for the slight derail, I'll start a new thread for Jason and I

Your comments and mine were on point. The post talks about God, prophets, etc. It addresses issues that can be argued whether God should tell us about or not and just what his involvement is. TD seems to think God should tell us about the impact of all the potential changes in technology as well as socioeconomic issues. She may be right.

However, it seems to me, that the God of religion views things long term and eternally. This life is all we know for sure. But it is not all God knows. If the God of religion is real then it seems that He/it has not been to concerned about our comfort here. Rather preaching repentance and salvation in the eternal world has been His focus.

I am not saying that TD is not right to expect more. And maybe the fact that the God of religion, particularly Judeo/Christian faiths, has been focused on some very basic things and not to worried about other things that seem important is indicative that a lot about this God is man made.

On the other hand maybe the things TD and you seem to want really are not all that important in the eternal scheme of things.

Hi Jason,

Not really. :-)

First, I don't really want anything from any God. If I thought there was one then maybe... LOL!

Seriously though, my point was not that God should intervene and discuss every possible event that will occur. (Although the problem of suffering is a big one for me).

My point is... it seems that we are entering a world where the simple prophetic counsel we have heard regarding life is going to be completely irrelevant, perhaps even problematic.

Aside from repentance to prepare for the end of the world, we heard things from LDS prophets like: have a garden, don't drink tea, have a year supply, have as many children as possible, women don't work, men wear white shirts to church, stop wearing flip flops, go to the temple, do missionary work, etc. etc.

in my opinion, these sorts of ideas are really not preparing anyone for what is ahead. IF Christ were speaking to the prophets, it just seems to me he would give some new direction to help members navigate the future.

OF course, God's ways are not Man's ways, (and most certainly not woman's ways), still, I find it odd that a prophet who is supposed to give revelation, and speak as the voice for Jesus Christ himself seems completely unaware of what is coming.

I'll give you an example... in GD class a couple of years ago, there were many members who were adamant that the internet was of Satan, and that no LDS member should allow it in their home. I am not kidding. Even the Bishop was of this mindset. His children had to go to the county library to do their homework.

Now, I'm pretty sure most people here would consider this idea nonsense, and in truth becoming educated in the sciences, technology, and math would be very beneficial for the upcoming generations. (I'm not saying everyone but generally speaking).

If a prophet can tell women and men how many earrings God wants them to wear, is it really unreasonable to think God may have a tiny bit of information to help prepare us for the future in a more significant way?

I know, I know... I expect too much of God. You are right!

~td~

[_John Larsen]

Hi Jason,

Not really. :-)

First, I don't really want anything from any God. If I thought there was one then maybe... LOL!

Seriously though, my point was not that God should intervene and discuss every possible event that will occur. (Although the problem of suffering is a big one for me).

You are right. If there is a god, the best thing we could get was a truce. If He leaves me alone than I will leave him alone. I think that His intervention is far worse than natural cause and his believers are generally much worse off then the gentiles.

[_John Larsen]

I'll give you an example... in GD class a couple of years ago, there were many members who were adamant that the internet was of Satan, and that no LDS member should allow it in their home. I am not kidding. Even the Bishop was of this mindset. His children had to go to the county library to do their homework.

Now, I'm pretty sure most people here would consider this idea nonsense, and in truth becoming educated in the sciences, technology, and math would be very beneficial for the upcoming generations. (I'm not saying everyone but generally speaking).

If a prophet can tell women and men how many earrings God wants them to wear, is it really unreasonable to think God may have a tiny bit of information to help prepare us for the future in a more significant way?

I know, I know... I expect too much of God. You are right!

~td~

When I was a kid in the early 80s there was a big controversy in Northern Utah. Cable TV was being deployed throughout the county. This caused an uproar as cable TV was clearly a way for Satan to infiltrate the home. Much like your stake or the grass roots prop 8 campaign, rally's were organized from the pulpit and the Church shadow sponsored much of the organization. Of course it failed and the Church still stands, and even benefits, despite cable's presence in Utah.

Does anyone else remember this?

[_The Nehor]

Here, I'll pass on this tidbit, "Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." A little heads up on what is ahead and how to prepare for it. You are welcome.

Nehor, it's time for you to grab your sandwich board and head for Temple Square.

I prefer to go on splits with the Missionaries; I find it's more effective.

[_The Nehor]

Here, I'll pass on this tidbit, "Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." A little heads up on what is ahead and how to prepare for it. You are welcome.

This is exactly the mentallity I'm talking about.

Nehor,

There's more than one reason you don't believe Social Security will be there when you turn 65.

You know, I never once paid tithing on my Fica deductions when I used to think like you - and I considered myself a full tithe payer. Think about it.

I don't pay tithing on my deductions either and I know I'm a full tithe payer. Already thought about it.

[_Jason Bourne]

Hi Jason,

Not really. :-)

First, I don't really want anything from any God. If I thought there was one then maybe... LOL!

Sure seems like you do. Else why start the thread. Essentially you say if God really talks to his prophet why is he not addressing this, that and the other thing.

My point is... it seems that we are entering a world where the simple prophetic counsel we have heard regarding life is going to be completely irrelevant, perhaps even problematic.

Please list three things that are problematic from LDS prophetic counsel in light of the world we are entering.

Aside from repentance to prepare for the end of the world, we heard things from LDS prophets like: have a garden, don't drink tea, have a year supply, have as many children as possible, women don't work, men wear white shirts to church, stop wearing flip flops, go to the temple, do missionary work, etc. etc.

How about obey God's long time commands, come unto Christ, be faithful to yous spouse, be kind and merciful, be involved in your community. There really is a lot more than the minuscule even silly ones that are easy for you to make fun of.

in my opinion, these sorts of ideas are really not preparing anyone for what is ahead. IF Christ were speaking to the prophets, it just seems to me he would give some new direction to help members navigate the future.

So this is your opinion. That is nice. What specifics are you looking for?

OF course, God's ways are not Man's ways, (and most certainly not woman's ways), still, I find it odd that a prophet who is supposed to give revelation, and speak as the voice for Jesus Christ himself seems completely unaware of what is coming.

What is coming? How do you know they are unaware?

I'll give you an example... in GD class a couple of years ago, there were many members who were adamant that the internet was of Satan, and that no LDS member should allow it in their home. I am not kidding. Even the Bishop was of this mindset. His children had to go to the county library to do their homework.

Stupidity from narrow minded members is not the fault of the prophet or God.

If a prophet can tell women and men how many earrings God wants them to wear, is it really unreasonable to think God may have a tiny bit of information to help prepare us for the future in a more significant way?

You know I think this example is unfair. This was one talk about how to dress. It has been taken and exploited both by leaders and active members and critics to a level I am sure it was never meant to be. If you want me to take you seriously then address actual substantive direction that has been given over the year. One thing that the leaders would argue is that many years ago the foresaw the disintegration of the nuclear family and started taking steps to shore is up well before it was a problem like it is today. I find much of what the LDS Church has done in this arena prophetic.

I know, I know... I expect too much of God. You are right!

You can expect whatever you want.

[_Seven]

"Inconceivable"


Every time the Mormon God throws his fits of rage (like a tsunami, earthquake, hurricane, flood or other natural disaster) - you know, events defined by Mormons as a sign of the times, the Mormon church is there to assist in cleaning up His big messes.

And they make sure to let everyone know who gets credit for it in those yellow shirts, don't they.
Right after the tsunami, many people were sending money to the Red Cross. LDS leaders requested we give our RED CROSS donations to the church and they would hand it over to the Red Cross for us!

These scriptures come to mind:
1 Cor. 13:
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Who does the average Mormon think creates the need for compassionate relief? The Mormon God or the Mormon Satan? Are anger, rage and creating human carnage attributes Mormons will be required to emulate as they become Mormon Gods?

Since many Mormons still believe Satan controls the waters, it would seem that Lucifer is behind at least the tsunamis, hurricanes, and floods.

Mormonism teaches that after the fall of Adam and Eve, Satan was given power over this earth.
It's interesting that so many believers blame natural disasters on the wrath of God given LDS teachings. (and temple instruction on Satan's power)
These natural disasters do not discriminate based on a person's sins. We are all sinners and it strikes me as very self righteous for someone to believe that God is punishing another group of people.

Natural disasters occurred on this earth long before Adam and Eve came into the picture.

What does that say for the character of whoever orchestrates the signs of the times or at very least, has the power to prevent them from occurring?

I don't believe in a God that intervenes but I do believe He unconditionally loves each of us. This life and progression through others to come are the "refiners fire" for us to learn and someday posses this perfect love. It is only through suffering and tasting of sin that we can really become a person of charity.
I don't believe "Satan" is a real person. He represents the opposition to God (or the dark side ;) ......... symbolic of the carnal and sensual fallen man. If he was real, then "Satan was set up."
(one of my favorite pseudonyms used by an MD poster)

I like this quote by CS Lewis:

"The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us"