John Larsen wrote:My experience is that most so-called Christians or believers are apathetic. Most people who go to the bother to declare themselves atheists usually have strong feelings about it. But that is just my experience.
Mine is the precise opposite of that. Having a different experience is perfectly fine and that's of course something that everyone does. Inundating someone with false information and telling them their memory is flawed is something else entirely - isn't it?
John, I haven't forgotten your question about a next step. Maybe I was a little bit put off by it. I was not sure if you just wanted to draw me into saying you better start believing. Or perhaps you just were thinking you could see no sensible step beyond atheism. Ok
My first thought was simply, I do not wish to set up paths for other people, I have enough difficulty tracking my own path. I thought of elaborating on this by observing that there are all sorts of atheists in all sorts of personal locations. Even if I supposed I knew the right goal for all those people I would have to know all about their personal location to know the correct next step. Even that would presuppose one path from point a to b must be required. Even if we were sure of the two points if you wished to persue a loop path I do not know why you should not.
But I have some doubt that I know the goal location. I seriously doubt everybody should have the same goal location. figuring out the best next step for the typical atheiest is clearly completely out of reach.
But I could keep in the role of Bible proponent and quote a scripture. Romans 2:13, For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in Gods sight but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed when Gentiles who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thougts now accusing, now even defending them. This will take plece on the day when God will judge mens secrets through Jesus Christ.
If I continued that thought in my own words I would observe that there are people who are spiritual lights to their lives and those who are around them. There are other people who are spiritual black holes. They devour those around them. Now most of us are a bit of both but to live we must turn from the black hole power. I think this turning is of the same importance if you believe in God or if you do not.
I now lean towards Christian Universalism in my beliefs. Christian Universalism does Not believe in a literal eternal hell. I Consider Myself a Christian still, However I don't really believe in a literal eternal hell. I do lean towards Christian Universalism in my beliefs.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
Brackite is a prophet, as we can see from his use of chiasmus:
A. I now lean towards Christian Universalism in my beliefs. ........B. Christian Universalism does Not believe in a literal eternal hell. ........B. I Consider Myself a Christian still, However I don't really believe in a literal eternal hell. A. I do lean towards Christian Universalism in my beliefs.
CaliforniaKid wrote:Brackite is a prophet, as we can see from his use of chiasmus:
A. I now lean towards Christian Universalism in my beliefs. ........B. Christian Universalism does Not believe in a literal eternal hell. ........B. I Consider Myself a Christian still, However I don't really believe in a literal eternal hell. A. I do lean towards Christian Universalism in my beliefs.
That is Right, CaliforniaKid!
Chiasmus is the Language of the Lord God.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
It's difficult to address all of those concerns at one time. And it's even more difficult to defend a representation of Christian beliefs that are not accurate representations.
5) How unjust is it that Gandi and Hitler get the exact same afterlife because neither accepted Jesus as their savior? Accepting Jesus is a "get out of hell free" card. Christians believe even murderers can go to heaven just like Mother Teresa if they just accept Christ. At least with Mormonism, there are differing degrees of glory and murder is not covered by Christ's atonement and must be paid for by the sufferer personally.
So let's deal with this one. While it is true that murderers can go to heaven. It is equally true that God's standard is His righteousness and that is required for citizenship in heaven. No one can attain that righteousness but by God imputing it to them. That is done at recognition of who Jesus is and who we are. There are no magic words. The sinners prayer is not an incantation. Repentance, as I'm sure you know, is a complete reversal of ones mindset - that comes from recognizing who Jesus is and who we are.
I've found that those who want to flag-pole Hitler, et al., as the "at least I'm better than they are" defense haven't really delved too deeply into the doctrine. Certainly, Hitler etc., is (probably) enjoying the fruits of his labor - just as those who are in heaven are doing the same. Rewards are not equal and neither is punisment.
Still, God declares that He is knowable. That those who do not believe, choose not to believe. Just as God is a God of infinite mercy, He is a God of infinite justice. Rather, He is Mercy. He is Justice. To reconcile sinful man to a righteous God requires something. He chose Jesus (Himself). That is mercy. Yet, since He is righteousness, He can not co-habitate with unrighteousness. That is justice.
But let's look at the Mormon view. What if one intends to commit murder but just isn't very good at it? His ineptitude is his savior? Or he is capable but the gun misfired. The subtleties of technology is his savior? Are you calling that just?