In defense of the LDS Church

[_The Nehor]

What I learned from my gay friends going from 18 to 40's, watching some go from age of consent till today. Watching one 18 year old friend used and broken in many ways by a 40 year old using him for sex and his remarks that such relationships are not uncommon (they're not). Watching the pain as my friend went from straight (and much better at getting girls then me) to experimentation to claiming bisexuality to homosexuality to the perversions often associated with homosexuality. He is a shell of who he used to be but is starting to recover. I blame a good portion of what happened to him on a manipulative older guy who pretended to be his friend, got him drunk, and then started remolding his sexual urges.

Again, I see pain, suffering, and hurt. I HATE IT. If hating these things and wanting the cause eradicated makes me a bigot, then I cringe at what the meaning of bigotry has become.

First of all, Nehor, let me say that I am truly sorry for what happened to your friend. He was, most definitely, the victim of abuse, and the 40 year old who did this should be ashamed of himself.

I think, though, that you are making generalizations based on what happened to your friend. I'm not saying that bad things don't and can't happen within this lifestyle, but from what I have witnessed, the same types of abuse and heartache occurs within the heterosexual lifestyle as well.

My friend, who is in his early 30's, and gay, has been with his partner for almost two years. They live together, and are in an exclusive, monogamous relationship. My friend is a professional actor, and also teaches and directs community theater; he takes voice lessons from me. His partner is a business analyst with a local medical insurance company. They are both bright, well-educated people who are fun to be around. They don't have any type of militant, hidden agenda. They don't do drugs. They do drink socially, but not excessively.

I certainly wouldn't view either of them as deviant or harmful to anyone. Both of these young men are welcome in my home. My voice student has actually fixed my daughter's car on several occasions, and, when we were traveling for Spring Break last summer, checked in on my oldest daughter for me, who stayed at the house.

My other friend, who is 44 (my age), is also in an exclusive, monogamous relationship, and has been in this relationship for almost 20 years. They own a home and a business together. I don't get to see them as often because they live in CA, and I live in NC.

As you can see, I have a rather different perspective of participants in "the gay community". I understand that you are younger than I am, and probably have seen more of the "party" side of this lifestyle, but your earlier claim that monogamous homosexual relationships are fantasy is simply not valid.

The thing is it is not just that friend. It seems to be a pattern in that community. It seems anecdotal but the more I study it the more it seems like these kinds of stories are fairly common.

[_The Nehor]

Heh. I just read further. Well if morality lacks a rational basis and really is a series of emotional sentiments, why on earth would you go and assert a statement like, "homosexuality is immoral" is true? It can't be true or false, as it is not the sort of thing amenable to rational analysis in your own viewpoint. You just feel what you feel.

It may lack a rational basis but that does not make it non-absolute. I believe morality extends down from a higher sphere. If you believe that morality is not based on 'feelings' then can you rationally explain why everything you think is bad is bad. For example, can you defend some of the positions I thought were indefensible rationally.

[_cinepro]

It may lack a rational basis but that does not make it non-absolute. I believe morality extends down from a higher sphere.

What margin of error are you willing to grant for your information that is handed down from the higher sphere? Meaning, do you acknowledge a certain degree of likelyhood that you might be wrong?

[_The Nehor]

It may lack a rational basis but that does not make it non-absolute. I believe morality extends down from a higher sphere.

What margin of error are you willing to grant for your information that is handed down from the higher sphere? Meaning, do you acknowledge a certain degree of likelyhood that you might be wrong?

I'm sure much of my information is incomplete and some of it is probably things I'm extrapolating from revelation that could be wrong. Some things I am sure of though.

[_Moniker]

How is homosexuality inherently immoral? What defects in morality are you talking about?

1. It is in defiance of divine will.

You have a pipeline to God to know this?

2. It is almost always polyamorous and there are VERY few monogamous homosexual couples. Many that claim monogamy mean emotional monogamy and have some form of getting sex on the side, often with partner's permission.

Where are the stats for this? I've never seen from my personal experince, of course it may happen, yet I doubt this is the norm. Yet, if it is then so what?

3. It cuts off the fountain of life and prevents reproduction.

Plenty of homosexuals actually do have children. Yet, if relationships are only deemed moral via fertility then there are some immoral heterosexual infertile couples, eh?

4. It is more often associated with perversion then heterosexual relationships.

Nothing that homosexual couples do cannot (and is done often) be done by heterosexual couples.

5. This is an observed behavior but homosexual relationships seem to be more about sex then commitment and love.

I think both are important for both heterosexual and homosexual relationships, yet, can't imagine why anyone would committ to a partner just for sex.

that is enough to start. I consider it a dangerous phenomenon. Rampant homosexuality is not a new thing. In history it was always eventually removed from public acceptance again and labeled immoral again. Why? I suspect people were unhappy by the social effects of the practice and drove it away. I can only hope that history will repeat itself.

What precisely are you referring to?

[_Yoda]

Quote:
2. It is almost always polyamorous and there are VERY few monogamous homosexual couples. Many that claim monogamy mean emotional monogamy and have some form of getting sex on the side, often with partner's permission.

Where are the stats for this? I've never seen from my personal experince, of course it may happen, yet I doubt this is the norm. Yet, if it is then so what?

I, like Moniker, would like to know what stats you are basing this on. Or, are you basing this on your own experience with people you know? If the latter, then I hope you can at least recognize that others who have recognized different behaviors among homosexual friends are just as valid....mine, for example?

[Guest]

Do you want me to tell you what I thnk of your avatar and what it says about you? I think not. :)

Be careful. The film's creator, Hayao Miyazaki, makes some of the best animated films ever (in my opinion).

I do wonder, however, what you do think of the Lady Eboshi.

Abman, we've talked about this before. The only thing I've seen by him is Spirited Away. My daughter is really into his work and enjoys it. I just find it odd when men post female cartoon avatars...

I posted the coop devil girl because I was in a rotten mood and thought I'd give marg something to gasp at and scold me for. I need to stop being a masochist.

[_Moniker]

It may lack a rational basis but that does not make it non-absolute. I believe morality extends down from a higher sphere. If you believe that morality is not based on 'feelings' then can you rationally explain why everything you think is bad is bad. For example, can you defend some of the positions I thought were indefensible rationally.

There was a question I considered a while back as to whether it is immoral to pay a destitute woman to eat dog poop. Now, the dog poop itself is something that sets off the gag reflex, for me. Yet, I understand that others may enjoy certain things I consider repulsive. What the determining factor came to, for me, is harm and whether the person being paid to do this wanted to do this or whether they did it because they had no other options. Of course people do things alll the time that they don't want to do for money - yet, the dog poop could be harmful to physical health and actually cause sickness. So, I attempted to think beyond mere knee jerk disgust and look at harm and circumstances.