Stan Barker and Tabloid Mopologetics

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_Jason Bourne
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Re: Stan Barker and Tabloid Mopologetics

Post by _Jason Bourne »

I sit aghast before my computer. This is due is part to my having done a great deal of self-reflection lately. Am I wrong? Am I a bad person? Do I deserve to be hurt, as Prof. Peterson and The Nehor have suggested? Am I merely a "smear-meister," as Jason Bourne has said? I sure hope not. Indeed, if I am as much of a "monster" as these and other individuals have suggested, then perhaps I ought to make a permanent exodus from the messageboard.


My only beef had been your presentation and style along with targeting real life people in a seeming malicious way. If you would simply present the data and leave out the spin and hyperbole you would be better off. I may not agree with some of your topics even so but would have no problem with you presenting what you see as problems in LDS apologetics.

By the way, I am not a fan of SHIELDS and I too was embarrassed by this item about Walter Martin when I saw it years ago. I also thing Novak's rule, while apparent sarcasm, not to positive of a way to approach apologetics. Another things that bothers me about apologetics as well is the tendency that you have noted to focus on the person rather than their material. When I have read defense against Martin I too tired of the constant complaint about his degree. It is enough to point it out but to continually make it the an issue while ignoring other more weighty issues was tiresome. There are many other papers I have read where I found myself wondering when the issues rather than the person would be discussed.
_harmony
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Re: Tabloid Mopologetics

Post by _harmony »

Mister Scratch wrote:Well, this is all very fascinating. Really, it has caused me to push away from my keyboard momentarily as I nod gravely and press my fingers together in a steeple shape. In my mind, I say, "Yes, it's all beginning to come together now."


I think, if you tried, you could take the Creepy Guy of the Year award away from the undead dude in the blocking commercial on DTV.

Indeed, Dwight Frye and Dr. Robbers have produced some startling and important revelations, as has Dr. Peterson. Based on last night's vigorous and revealing exchange, this is, I believe, what can be summarized:

---Prior to his retirement, J. Tvedtnes was a paid Mopologist at FARMS.


This is not news.

---Stan Barker functions as a kind of Mopologetic "gopher" for FARMS, maintaining "creepy dossiers" and delivering weekly emails to DCP.


For anyone with a minimal interaction with Stan Barker, this is not news.

---It may be that Barker has been specifically assigned by Top Dawg Mopologists to assemble "creepy dossiers" on Christian critics of the LDS Church.


This has yet to be proven. You need to dig deeper than you have in order to provide the evidence for this statement.

---Barker's viciousness and bitterness (as evidenced by his Martin Piece) may be due to his lower-rung status. That is, he doesn't have a Maxwell Institute appointment, doesn't get paid, and doesn't get much recognition for his dossier assembling.


I suspect it is an ongoing issue leftover from the preexistence, rather than having a starting point with the Martin piece.

---SHIELDS has significant and important ties with "official" Mopologetics---far stronger ties than DCP was initially willing to admit.


I'm not seeing that. A handful of instances does not equal "strong".

---DCP's antics on this thread appear to have been a kind of smokescreen meant to distract us from learning these truths about Barker's wickedness.


You both dance. It's what you do.

Another piece of the puzzle falls into place. Another watershed moment, letting the fluid of truth course through the deserts of Mopologetic skullduggery.


Balderdash. A "watershed moment" of LDS apologetic "skullduggery" would be... evidence repeatedly linking SCMC to LDS apologists to Courts of Love. That would be a watershed moment of shullduggery. This isn't even close.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Gadianton
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Re: Stan Barker and Tabloid Mopologetics

Post by _Gadianton »

Another piece of the puzzle falls into place. Another watershed moment, letting the fluid of truth course through the deserts of Mopologetic skullduggery.


Beautifully put, my friend.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Gadianton
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Re: Stan Barker and Tabloid Mopologetics

Post by _Gadianton »

harmony,

I've seen you mention bro. Barker's name in the past. I had no idea who he was until last night. In what way had you interacted with him in the past? Why were you left with a negative impression?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: Stan Barker and Tabloid Mopologetics

Post by _Gadianton »

Jason,

I had a feeling you'd be uncomfortable with the work that goes on at SHIELDS. Thanks for your input.

Why Me,

I can't say that I'm all that enthused about your involvement with apologetics, but considering the depth of your commitment, it does appear you've been able to maintain a good heart throughout.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_harmony
_Emeritus
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Re: Stan Barker and Tabloid Mopologetics

Post by _harmony »

Gadianton wrote:harmony,

I've seen you mention bro. Barker's name in the past. I had no idea who he was until last night. In what way had you interacted with him in the past? Why were you left with a negative impression?


Long ago, so far in the distant past you were likely a sweet teenager still, I had a run in with Stan Barker that I remember like it was yesterday. I had just found out about Fanny, and had been shredding ldstalk's board in a "discussion" with Josh Skains. Josh first led me to SHIELDS, assuring me I'd be able to have a "discussion" with Stan about plural marriage that would show me how wrong I was about Joseph (heck, back then I actually had hopes that I was wrong!). That gave me my first baptism by the fire of LDS apologetics. I used to be the sweetest person... then I cyber-met Stan. He lied, he distorted, and he was a take-no-prisoners-type bully, while I was a still uninitiated TBM who had just had her world knocked sideways. I escaped, only to then be led to ZLMB... and Daniel.

That period of my life was not a good time to know harmony. I had no harmony. I was seething, and I had to do it silently, because I still had to deal with my real world. Stan was a jerk and bully. Once was enough.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Mister Scratch
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Re: Stan Barker and Tabloid Mopologetics

Post by _Mister Scratch »

harmony wrote: I used to be the sweetest person... then I cyber-met Stan. He lied, he distorted, and he was a take-no-prisoners-type bully, while I was a still uninitiated TBM who had just had her world knocked sideways. I escaped, only to then be led to ZLMB... and Daniel.


Can you tell us more of the details of this story? In what ways did he lie and distort?
_harmony
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Re: Stan Barker and Tabloid Mopologetics

Post by _harmony »

Mister Scratch wrote:
harmony wrote: I used to be the sweetest person... then I cyber-met Stan. He lied, he distorted, and he was a take-no-prisoners-type bully, while I was a still uninitiated TBM who had just had her world knocked sideways. I escaped, only to then be led to ZLMB... and Daniel.


Can you tell us more of the details of this story? In what ways did he lie and distort?


The standard lies and distortions people who know make to people who don't know. He wouldn't be able to get away with it now, but I didn't have the resources then that I do now.

I went from him... to Daniel. At one time, I thought I'd gone from the frying pan into the fire. Good thing I'd made some friends along the way. I used to joke about an asbsetos suit I'd put on before venturing onto Z.

And they still can't get around Fanny.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Mister Scratch
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Re: Stan Barker and Tabloid Mopologetics

Post by _Mister Scratch »

harmony wrote:
I went from him... to Daniel. At one time, I thought I'd gone from the frying pan into the fire. Good thing I'd made some friends along the way. I used to joke about an asbsetos suit I'd put on before venturing onto Z.


Are you saying that DCP treated you even worse than S. Barker? Did DCP also lie to you and distort the truth?
_harmony
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Re: Stan Barker and Tabloid Mopologetics

Post by _harmony »

Mister Scratch wrote:
harmony wrote:
I went from him... to Daniel. At one time, I thought I'd gone from the frying pan into the fire. Good thing I'd made some friends along the way. I used to joke about an asbsetos suit I'd put on before venturing onto Z.


Are you saying that DCP treated you even worse than S. Barker? Did DCP also lie to you and distort the truth?


As far as I know, Daniel has never lied to me. We've danced around subjects occasionally, but I don't think he's deliberately distorted the truth in any discussion.

But Daniel was not the sweetheart he now is, back then. Which is why, as a result of many weeks of reading him on Z, in our initial conversation, I called him a self-righteous arrogant prick.

Stan, on the other hand, reminds me of what would happen should a love child be born between juliann and Pahoran.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
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