The Bitter Fruits of Apostacy

[_Pokatator]

One of the basic tenets of apostates is that they deny that they're sinners.

Wow, this kind of labeling is fun.

Hey, Nehor, is a battered masturbator.

Wow, this kind of labeling is fun.......

[_karl61]

Gaz. Wrote:

What accurate information am I missing? I have Brodies book in Hardcover. I own a copy of Heaven and Hell by Swedenborg in hardcover also. I tried to buy a copy of Quinns magic book, but they wanted like $116 dollars for it, so I passed. But I understand whats in it. These things don't bother me. They are 3 persons opinions as they see things from their view. Brodies book really isn't that bad. Swedenborg hit on a few interesting points. Quinn recognized that Folk Magic played a big part in peoples lives in early america. It played a large role in my wifes family as they came from the hils of Arkansas just a few generations back. Her father can hold some interesting discussions on the old ways because his Father was brought up in it.


The D. Michael Quinn books is 16 dollars on amazon not 116.

[_Inconceivable]

One of the basic tenets of apostates is that they deny that they're sinners.

Wow, this kind of labeling is fun.

I think your comment stems from the allusion that if someone rejects the Mormon church, they reject what restricts them from indulging in antisocial behavior.

By the way Nehor,

This is an excerpt of my comment a few posts above.

Once again, you're a great example of how the typical Mormon sees those that escaped their little fishbowl.
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[_The Nehor]

One of the basic tenets of apostates is that they deny that they're sinners.

Wow, this kind of labeling is fun.

I think your comment stems from the allusion that if someone rejects the Mormon church, they reject what restricts them from indulging in antisocial behavior.

By the way Nehor,

This is an excerpt of my comment a few posts above.

Once again, you're a great example of how the typical Mormon sees those that escaped their little fishbowl.
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My post was satire. As Shades created an unchallengeable assertion by making a statement and then stating that it was a 'tenet' that those who would disagree with him are wrong I decided to go and do likewise. My statement is uncontestable because all those who would deny it are already discredited.

[_Inconceivable]

Nehor,

I've noted that your satire reflects the narrow mindset of many of those TBM's I've spoken to. I'm not sure you understand the meaning of satire.

Regardless, what is your honest opinion about this when you're not sporting a rubber nose and big yellow shoes?

[_The Nehor]

Nehor,

I've noted that your satire reflects the narrow mindset of many of those TBM's I've spoken to. I'm not sure you understand the meaning of satire.

Regardless, what is your honest opinion about this when you're not sporting a rubber nose and big yellow shoes?

I have to take them off????

Okay, no, I don't think leaving the Church automatically means that the person leaving will indulge in antisocial behavior. If that was their only bar to antisocial behavior then they might. I seriously hope that people (both in and out of the Church) have a highly enough developed sense of right and wrong that that is not their only bar.

[_truth dancer]

Dancer,

I do understand what your saying.

Actually Gaz, I think you completely missed the point. I mean completely!

I actually read a book that our own Roger Morrison wrote where he discussed that very thing.

I've had read Roger's fabulous book as well... I'm the president of his fan club! :-)

I do understand this viewpoint, and to a certain extent agree with it.

No, I do not think you understand it at all, based on your post.

Everyone has something to offer, and we all bring unique viewpoints and life experiences to any group we interact with. I made the point in priesthood just last week that if we are to honor our priesthood we need to not focus on the flaws in others and instead build upon others strengths and compliment them often. Not an easy thing to do when sarcasm is so often the rule of the day.

This has NOTHING to do with my point.

That being said, it is the basic tenent of all religions that we share a common parentage.

No it is not. Not at all.

What we want from true religion is to understand what the Angels taught Adam.

No, this may be what YOU want, but it certainly not what all religions want. You are assuming there are angels, there was a real Adam, and that he was taught some sort of ultimate truth. Lots of assumptions here Gaz.

we want to know how to properly redeem ourselves from the Fall. Non judeo-christian religions might call it something else, but its the same thing. How do we make ourselves clean?

Nope.. don't see this is world religions at all.

Mormonism teaches this better than any other,

Gaz... here is your problem. Maybe to YOU, Mormonism teaches something better than any other religion but certainly not to the vast majority of the world's popluation.

Most people in the world do not even remotely hold to your assumptions, and what, something like only .009 percent of the world thinks Mormonism does anything better than everyone else.

Seriously Gaz... can you even step away from your ideas to see this?

and they have the Spirit of the Lord and a line and understanding of authority to go along with it.

The only ones who believe this are Mormons. Can you understand this? Everyone else thinks their way is the best way. They think their truth is the real truth. (Or none are true, or they are all at attempt at truth, or something along these lines).

You think you have some sort of "authority". Most of the world thinks the "authority" mantra is nonsense.

You think YOU have the Spirit of the Lord, but the rest of the world, thinks THEY have the spirit (or something along these lines).

You have been indoctrinated to believe the truth as taught by Mormonism but the rest of the world has been indoctrinated to believe they are right. There is no difference. None. (Well, with the possible exception that other religions are less into indoctrination).

Why do the majority of Mormons who leave the church find it nearly impossible to sign on with any other church? Because they understand how plain and simple the foundation really is.

OK, this is total nuts. Seriously, you are completely wrong and way off base here. I hope you can step back and see how totally ridiculous this is.

I honestly believe there is not one, NOT EVEN ONE former Mormon who would suggest that the LDS church is plain and simple. In fact, I believe it is the most complicated, convoluted religion out there. The "foundation" of Mormonism is completely over the top messy.

The majority of former Mormons don't embrace another religion because they see similar problems with other religions.

Our missionaries just need to get out and teach it, and its obviously effective, with the church growing from 2 million to 12 million in the last 30 years.

Gaz, you have a virtual handful of Mormons worldwide. The majority of members are inactive, former believers, less active, non-temple recommend going, or faking it.

Its teaching are true and its doctrines are sound.

Again.. back to my main point. They are true to you and other Mormons, no one else. Just like the rest of the world believes their particular faith tradition is true.

There is no difference Gaz. None.

It tastes good to those who hear it.

Some people like the idea of Mormonism; mostly those needing hope and a support system, who are unable to really learn about the church.

To lots of people, the LDS church doesn't taste good at all. In fact to some it is poison.

Code: Select all

after all a living flame is far more appealing than stories of a fire that used to burn

Oh dear Gaz... this is silliness. Most people want to embrace truth not some sort of jumbled, convoluted, continually changing, messy guess of what may or may not be true depending on who is saying it and when it was said.

Gaz... you missed my point.

Could you briefly respond to these two questions:

Why don't you believe in Scientolgy, FLDS, JW, Hinduism?

Why do you think some people leave these religions?

If you answer these two questions you will know why people do not believe in Mormonism and why they leave Mormonism.

I am getting the impression that you can't bring yourself to truly answer these questions... it is as if you just can't go there.

So, again, to be as clear as I can...

The same reasons you don't believe in Scientology are the reasons others do not believe in Mormonism.

The same reasons people leave Mormonism are the reasons people leave Scientology.

~td~

[_Jersey Girl]

I just want to ask a question, Gaz.

You wrote:

I know that the Father and The Son appeared to him, and I know that what they taught him and trained him in were true laws and principles. Not because I was brought up in the church, but becasue God himself told me so personally. I have a solid foundation of spiritual bedrock to stand on and a firm position to view the world from, and everything I study only further strengthens it.

Is it possible that God intersected your life for the purpose of revealing Himself to you and not to provide witness that the Church is true?

(Probably a poorly framed question there)

Jersey Girl

p.s. I'm not going to attempt to debate you on this thread, perhaps if I had more time! :-)

[_Gazelam]

Karl61,

The D. Michael Quinn books is 16 dollars on amazon not 116.

I was in a rare bookshop and the copy they had there was that high. If it was only 16 I'd have snatched it up.

[_Gazelam]

Dancer,

What vast majority of the world are you refering to? What religion doesent teach repentance and making ones self clean?

And your seriously under the impression that authority is a non-issue among other faiths? You think the question never comes up as to who has the right to act in the name of God? What exactly is it that the Arabs and jews are fighting over anyway, and why are all these Catholics going to their priests?

I honestly believe there is not one, NOT EVEN ONE former Mormon who would suggest that the LDS church is plain and simple. In fact, I believe it is the most complicated, convoluted religion out there. The "foundation" of Mormonism is completely over the top messy.

The majority of former Mormons don't embrace another religion because they see similar problems with other religions.

Perhaps I phrased it wrong. The Latter Day Saint faith makes things simple becasue it ties together doctrine. It gives us an understanding of how and why various doctrines are the way they are. Examples include the pre-mortal life and the resurrection. Where else do oyu find this taught in such plainess and in such a fashion as to make the whole purpose of life understood? You understand your place in things! How could you go to another faith after that?

Gaz, you have a virtual handful of Mormons worldwide. The majority of members are inactive, former believers, less active, non-temple recommend going, or faking it.

That hanful is starting to overflow, and its going to continue to grow exponentially as time goes on. yes everyone is at a different level growth wise. Just like there are freshman and sophmores, juniors and seniors. People backslide and then creep back up, it happens. Theres also alot of amazing individuals who are fully dedicated and doing miraculous things.

Again.. back to my main point. They are true to you and other Mormons, no one else. Just like the rest of the world believes their particular faith tradition is true.

I understand your main point Dancer. I got it the first time but obviously didn't express myself well.

Be it scientology, Hinduism, Wikan. it doesent matter. I don't believe in them because I have been taught the true gospel.I've read what Scientology teaches and it is bogus. All of the ancient prophets testify of what God is really like. Their testimonies are plain and clear and support one another.

We don't need crystals to remove the space aliens from our souls. We don't rest on a lotus flower growing out of a deities bellybutton. That stuff is nonsense. People believe alot of things, and it takes proper instruction in correct faith to fix it.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God through the testimony of the servants of God and in no other way. If it isn't taught then people don't know it, and they come up with all kinds of things when left on their own. Adam didn't know what to do until the angels came and taught him. (And Mormons are not the only ones who teach this). Christ had to seek out and instruct all of his apostles before they had proper faith. Who knows what beliefs they held before he instructed them?

Why do people leave these other faiths? Im sure the answers are as varied as the personalities involved.

In the end God himself has to tell you whats right. true religion is founded solely on revelation. If you don't have revelation, you don't have God. That isn't a strange or unusual thought. that's a fundamental principle.