Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

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_Amaterasu
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Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

Post by _Amaterasu »

Sheesh, most today recognize that it is acceptable to divorce when in an abusive marriage. Look what God's mouthpiece has to say:

http://www.christianpost.com/church/Meg ... index.html

Physical abuse by one’s spouse is not a biblical reason for divorce, says a pastor at Saddleback Church in southern California.

Tom Holladay, teaching pastor at the megachurch founded by best-selling author Rick Warren, says the Bible only gives two cases where divorce is acceptable: abandonment and a physical affair.

“I wish there were a third in Scripture having been involved as a pastor with situations of abuse," Holladay said in an audio clip posted on Saddleback Church’s Web site. "There is something in me that wishes there were a Bible verse that says, 'If they abuse you in this-and-such kind of way, then you have a right to leave them.'"

Physical abuse, he defined, is someone “literally” beating another person up regularly.

"I don't mean they grab you once. I mean they've made a habit of beating you regularly,” he clarified.

But while Holladay believes divorce is not a biblical option in cases of domestic violence, he strongly recommends the couple to separate. During the separation, the couple should undergo counseling and try to mend the marriage, he said.

“Separation combined with counseling has been proven to provide healing in people’s lives,” the pastor said, noting that his church, Saddleback, offers such a program.

“There is no where in the Bible that says you should put up with abuse,” he emphasized. There is no where that says it is an “attitude of submission to let someone abuse you.”

It is logical to think that divorce will offer an escape from the pain, the pastor acknowledged, but in reality it doesn’t. The pain of a broken marriage continues for the rest of a person’s life.

After a divorce, there is an “immediate release” from pain and people can think that freedom and joy are coming back into their life. But in the long term, the pain recurs every time the two former spouses deal with the children or communicate. And even events in a new marriage can trigger painful memories.

Holladay recommends instead of the “short-term solution” of a divorce that will involve long-term pain, people should endure “short-term pain” and find “God’s solution” for “long-term gain.”

The pastor explained that God understands the pain of a difficult marriage. The nation of Israel in the Bible is depicted as the bride of God, but Scripture also expresses in great detail the pain of God as Israel tries to divorce itself from its spiritual husband.

Through the Bible, people can see that God understands the pain of a hurtful marriage and can offer comfort, strength, perspective and wisdom to those also suffering from such a relationship, the pastor said.

“Does God expect us to live with this pain? No,” Holladay stated. “I think he expects us to ask him for wisdom to do the things that would cause the pain to begin to be solved. He says we're one and as Christians, as believers, the Bible says a husband is to sacrifice for his wife and the wife is to respect her husband."


It's so odd, to me, to see this left over primitive mindset in many people where they think people should tough it out. Yet, when kids are involved, I personally believe, it's best for children to be taken away from an abusive environment.

I understand that this is easier said then done for many women (or men), yet, I don't understand why divorce is still so stigmatized in this day and age. Thankfully the 60's helped to sap away some of the stigma, yet, with Christians there still seems to be a predominant mindset that single parent families are not best for children. Well, single parent families can be better than abusive homes.
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_The Nehor
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Re: Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

Post by _The Nehor »

Amaterasu wrote:I understand that this is easier said then done for many women (or men), yet, I don't understand why divorce is still so stigmatized in this day and age. Thankfully the 60's helped to sap away some of the stigma, yet, with Christians there still seems to be a predominant mindset that single parent families are not best for children. Well, single parent families can be better than abusive homes.


Living on just bread and cheese is better then living on just bread too. I don't want either. The LDS view is that the two-parent family is the ideal way to raise a family with a father and a mother. Now, a single parent is often better then an abusive environment. A superb single parent may even be better then a mediocre ideal family unit. However, we strive for the ideal and prefer not to fixate on which of two bad situations is worse unless we have to.

I don't agree with the above pastor, by the way.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Pastor Holladay needs to read the rest of his Bible instead of cherry picking out a few verses to make his case. I suspect God wishes for people to use the brains they were created/born with and apply all Biblical scriptures to the conditions of marriage described in the Bible, including the Biblical treatment of one's spouse.

If one spouse is engaging in abuse of the other, they've already abandoned the marriage and the vows they made.

Just my take.
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_Amaterasu
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Re: Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

Post by _Amaterasu »

The Nehor wrote: The LDS view is that the two-parent family is the ideal way to raise a family with a father and a mother.


I think most everyone shares that view and that is not in dispute. That is, no doubt, ideal.

Now, a single parent is often better then an abusive environment. A superb single parent may even be better then a mediocre ideal family unit. However, we strive for the ideal and prefer not to fixate on which of two bad situations is worse unless we have to.

I don't agree with the above pastor, by the way.


I'm glad you don't agree with the above pastor! I just find it odd that how one should live or what is ideal is looked at from a biblical perspective! I just can't fathom why anyone would not consider circumstances and rely on a book of religion to tell others how to live their life.
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_The Nehor
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Re: Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

Post by _The Nehor »

Amaterasu wrote:I'm glad you don't agree with the above pastor! I just find it odd that how one should live or what is ideal is looked at from a biblical perspective! I just can't fathom why anyone would not consider circumstances and rely on a book of religion to tell others how to live their life.


I don't find that odd if taken in context and with consideration for circumstances. I do find it odd that someone would take as their sole source some letters an Apostle wrote to answer and inform specific people and a few short biographies as the SOLE source of instruction on the matter.
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_Gadianton
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Re: Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

Post by _Gadianton »

After a divorce, there is an “immediate release” from pain and people can think that freedom and joy are coming back into their life. But in the long term, the pain recurs every time the two former spouses deal with the children or communicate. And even events in a new marriage can trigger painful memories


two cases where divorce is acceptable: abandonment and a physical affair.


Let's see here, in the case of an affair, no pain will ever recur and dealing with the children will always be easy. Oh, and events in the new marriage will never trigger painful memories.
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_Jason Bourne
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Re: Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Jersey Girl wrote:Pastor Holladay needs to read the rest of his Bible instead of cherry picking out a few verses to make his case. I suspect God wishes for people to use the brains they were created/born with and apply all Biblical scriptures to the conditions of marriage described in the Bible, including the Biblical treatment of one's spouse.

If one spouse is engaging in abuse of the other, they've already abandoned the marriage and the vows they made.

Just my take.


Well Jersey Girl the protestant flavor of conservative evangelicalism has its share of biblical literlists. For them the Bible is it (qualified to mean the conservative reformed theology interpretation of the Bible). And this just demonstrates the stupidity that results when people try to govern every decision with a document thousands of years old that was certainly influenced by the culture of the time.

One wonders if this fellow really understands the stupidity of what he says. He really wished the Bible had a verse about leaving a spouse due to abuse? Does he need the Bible to tell him everything that he has to do and not do? How about driving a car. Where does it say in the Bible to drive a car, or fly in a plane? How about about medicine and modern health care? If this dude has cancer will he pass on chemo? Some nut cakes will due to some Bible understanding?

Oh the list could go on.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Jason Bourne wrote:Well Jersey Girl the protestant flavor of conservative evangelicalism has its share of biblical literlists. For them the Bible is it (qualified to mean the conservative reformed theology interpretation of the Bible). And this just demonstrates the stupidity that results when people try to govern every decision with a document thousands of years old that was certainly influenced by the culture of the time.


That's why I've been saying for years that people need to research the ancient culture in addition to reading the Bible. What happens is that when people are "preached to" using selected passages to support a sermon or message, they tend to become passive receptors of the verses and fail to synthesize what they're hearing.



One wonders if this fellow really understands the stupidity of what he says. He really wished the Bible had a verse about leaving a spouse due to abuse? Does he need the Bible to tell him everything that he has to do and not do? How about driving a car. Where does it say in the Bible to drive a car, or fly in a plane? How about about medicine and modern health care? If this dude has cancer will he pass on chemo? Some nut cakes will due to some Bible understanding?

Oh the list could go on.




What I was referring to in my post are scriptural indications of how one is to treat their spouse, which I think are healthy. When people cherry pick out Bible verses to make their case, they fail miserably to injest the pervasive messages about marital relationships.

That's what I'm saying.

And no, he doesn't understand the stupidity of what he's saying. For one, abuse is against the law. I have no problem with one spouse forgiving the other, maintaining some sort of relationships with the offending spouse in order to help the spouse through some sort of therapy program, but look, if a stranger assaulted you, you wouldn't strike up a friendship with that person. Your wedding ring/ceremony isn't a permission slip to break the law and get away with acts that if they were acted out on you by a stranger, would land a person in jail.
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_Amaterasu
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Re: Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

Post by _Amaterasu »

Jersey Girl! Precisely! If a stranger drags me off into the bushes and beat the living crap out of me I can't fathom (???) I would ever have any sort of friendship with this person.

I think people should make their own choices depending upon their circumstances. Divorce hurts. No doubt.

I just can't believe that anyone would think that you should stick out being abused because God has it all worked out. Sure go to counseling. Separate or whatever. Yet, this sweeping judgment that abuse is a short term pain in contrast to God's long term goal strikes me as absurd!
Last edited by Guest on Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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_Amaterasu
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Re: Christian Says Don't Divorce Even When Abused

Post by _Amaterasu »

Gadianton wrote:
After a divorce, there is an “immediate release” from pain and people can think that freedom and joy are coming back into their life. But in the long term, the pain recurs every time the two former spouses deal with the children or communicate. And even events in a new marriage can trigger painful memories


two cases where divorce is acceptable: abandonment and a physical affair.


Let's see here, in the case of an affair, no pain will ever recur and dealing with the children will always be easy. Oh, and events in the new marriage will never trigger painful memories.


Yes, how cuckoo is that?
The first man to see an illusion by which men have flourished for centuries surely stands in a lonely place.
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