Prudes, nudes, art & embarassment?

[_JoetheClerk]

I know from close friends who are artists that they look at nudes a bit differently than I do. Through them I have met some LDS members who photograph, paint and sculpt nudes. One is currently a Bishop and photographs nudes. One is a noted photographer who was described as 'one of the top figurative photographers in the world', featured in many art magazines but who, since taking a teaching position at BYU doesn't (at least openly) photograph nudes any longer. Others work with the nude model in their art as a major part of their efforts. And yes, this is way past the 'get a camera and talk a girl out of her clothes' stage. These are serious artists whose work commands a good price in art galleries, not in Playboy or the lesser mens publications.

BYU even has full nudes in its permanent art collection. The works of Robert Mapplethorpe would never hang at the University (at least not his homoerotic nudes) but can be seen in the BYU Bookstore on the shelves. Yet BYU makes a big deal about not showing this stuff. Even to the absurdity of agreeing two years in advance to the full Rodin sculpture exhibit (including the specific clause that they agreed to show the entire exhibit with no censorship) and then then they censored it after receiving the thing. Seems MasterBateMan(headmaster at BYU at the time?) or Holland(can't remember which at this time) didn't like some of the sculptures and censored them.

I know it is not only LDS who do things like this but it IS LDS who do it and get the asinine publicity machine going and then make up odd excuses for their stupidty.

One Bishop will excommunicate you for photographing nudes. The next Bishop photographs them himself and has no problem with it.

After the Cupcake post took off I thought this might be appropriate. Art and Religion are often closely aligned. Nudes and Religion have a long history. Not all religious groups believe the nude figure to be offensive or embarassing. Why do LDS folk generally feel this way?

[_cinepro]

One Bishop will excommunicate you for photographing nudes. The next Bishop photographs them himself and has no problem with it.

Just pointing out that a Bishop can't "excommunicate" someone; that is only done by the high council and stake presidency, and I would surprised to hear that anyone had been excommunicated for photographing tasteful, artistic nudes.

Chad Hardy may be the poster boy for this subject (no pun intended), but I think there were other related factors beyond the amount of skin in the pictures he was taking.

[_JoetheClerk]

Yes, I realize the Bishop does not do it but his recommendation to the Stake President carries a lot of weight.
My idea of 'tasteful, artistic nudes' and some of the members I know are radically different. They think "nekkid broads" if any clothing is missing. Kind of like the idiots I met protesting 'Chemicals' outside the Utah Statehouse a couple of years ago. I asked one loud protestor if we should ban Sodium Chloride. YES! was the response.

How about DiHydrogen Monoxide? Same response. (seems chemicals are chemicals and all are bad, right?) This is the same response I have heard from a number of LDS in leadership positions at various places from BYU to UofU to UofTexas. Little thinking involved. That is why one Bishop is OK with something and the next is pushing excommunication for 'thought crimes'(or so it seems).

[_cinepro]

Yes, I realize the Bishop does not do it but his recommendation to the Stake President carries a lot of weight.

Even so, excommunication isn't just a matter of a bishop not liking something. 15 stake leaders have to agree to it. I'm not saying it couldn't happen; you just made it sound a little more casual (and arbitrary) than I think it really is.

[_Jason Bourne]

Just pointing out that a Bishop can't "excommunicate" someone; that is only done by the high council and stake presidency, and I would surprised to hear that anyone had been excommunicated for photographing tasteful, artistic nudes.

Actually a bishop can ex a non MP holder. He need to let the SP know about the council but it is in his power to ex a no MP holder. Also, he can do a disciplinary council on a MP holder if the SP sends it back to him and the likely outcome is something less than excommunication.

[_Jason Bourne]

Even so, excommunication isn't just a matter of a bishop not liking something. 15 stake leaders have to agree to it. I'm not saying it couldn't happen; you just made it sound a little more casual (and arbitrary) than I think it really is.

Another point. In a disciplinary council at the stake level the HC sits in, can offer discussion, suggestion, opinions, etc. But it it is the SP that makes the decision not the HC members. It only takes one person at the stake level to excommunicate.

[_moksha]

Of course, there is the question as to whether excommunication should ever enter the picture for the use of nudity in an artistic expression that would not otherwise violate the law.

Additionally, is there a point at which an overly censorious BYU administration actually hinders the education of its students?

[_cinepro]

Another point. In a disciplinary council at the stake level the HC sits in, can offer discussion, suggestion, opinions, etc. But it it is the SP that makes the decision not the HC members. It only takes one person at the stake level to excommunicate.

Interesting points. For some reason I thought every High Councilor and SP member had a say.

[_harmony]

Of course, there is the question as to whether excommunication should ever enter the picture for the use of nudity in an artistic expression that would not otherwise violate the law.

Additionally, is there a point at which an overly censorious BYU administration actually hinders the education of its students?

Surely you jest, lil penguin! Maybe we should take off the fig leaf and see if BYU would censor you.

[_Pokatator]

Of course, there is the question as to whether excommunication should ever enter the picture for the use of nudity in an artistic expression that would not otherwise violate the law.

Additionally, is there a point at which an overly censorious BYU administration actually hinders the education of its students?

Surely you jest, lil penguin! Maybe we should take off the fig leaf and see if BYU would censor you.

It's a maple leaf.