The Bitter Fruits of Apostacy

[_why me]

Apostates: those individuals who actively fight against the LDS church.

Former members: Those individuals who have resigned from the LDS church and are now living a life without the LDS church.

I think that we are confusing the two on this thread.

[_truth dancer]

Gaz,

In response to your comment about the responsibility for people to remain true, I wrote:

Do you think it is the responsibility for Muslims to remain true to their covenants/promises/rules/contracts? How about the FLDS? How about Scientologists? Catholics? How about the KKK or Mafia?

It is nonsense to even suggest people be true to anything they find harmful, cruel, inappropriate, illegal, dangerous, wrong, nonsensical, or disgraceful.

You responded:

Your right. There is no such thing as truth.

Hmmm have I ever said there is no truth? Nope. Never.

What is reality is that That all matter is simply energy condensed and slowed to a low vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself and there is no death. That life is only an illusion created in the imagination of ourselves.

What in the world does this ramble have to do with anything? It has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I wrote.

I asked you sincere questions, yet you continue to either reply with nonsense or bear your testimony.

Any chance you could actually respond to something?

Phew, I feel so much better. Think I'll go sit on a Ley line and rub a crystal now. Maybe work on my murmer till I get that sound of the universe thing down.

So mocking other's beliefs helps you feel better? It sounds like you think other's rituals are less weird than yours?

Which of course brings us to the main point I have been trying to make... the only reason you believe as you do is because you were indoctrinated, conditioned, taught your particular tradition. That is it.

As strong as you believe in your version of Mormonism, so to do most believers of the world believe in their particular tradition.

You don't see to get this.


~td~

[_Chap]

truth dancer to Gazelam:

I asked you sincere questions, yet you continue to either reply with nonsense or bear your testimony.

Any chance you could actually respond to something?

Likely Gazelam reply (decrypted in advance):

<fingers in ears> NNNNNNNNNNNNN..................MMMMMMMMMMMMM................. Can't hear you, you're dumb ....................... NNNNNNNNNNNNN..................MMMMMMMMMMMMM

[_Yoda]

Apostates: those individuals who actively fight against the LDS church.

Former members: Those individuals who have resigned from the LDS church and are now living a life without the LDS church.

I think that we are confusing the two on this thread.

Good point. Unfortnately, I think that many TBM's confuse the two.

I honestly don't think that Gaz is trying to confuse the two. He seems genuinely conflicted because he honestly likes a lot of the posters here.

Although Gaz does tend to put his foot in his mouth quite often, I think his heart is actually in the right place.

[_truth dancer]

Apostates: those individuals who actively fight against the LDS church.

Former members: Those individuals who have resigned from the LDS church and are now living a life without the LDS church.

I think that we are confusing the two on this thread.

Not exactly.

Apostate: a person who forsakes his religion, cause, party, etc.

Infidel (literally "one without faith") is an English word meaning "one who doubts or rejects central tenets of a religion or has no religious beliefs", especially in reference to Christianity or Islam.

1. Religion. a. a person who does not accept a particular faith, esp. Christianity.
b. (in Christian use) an unbeliever, esp. a Muslim.
c. (in Muslim use) a person who does not accept the Islamic faith; kaffir.
2. a person who has no religious faith; unbeliever.
3. (loosely) a person who disbelieves or doubts a particular theory, belief, creed, etc.; skeptic.

Hi Why me... the idea that there are those who leave the church and can live life without the LDS church is near mythical.

With few exceptions, members have family and friends that are still involved in the church.. there are baptisms, weddings, family gatherings to attend (or not), there are parents who mourn for the loss of their children, families torn apart because of differing beliefs, pressure to return, prayers for reactivation, visitors doing their duty.

Similar to those who leave other religions with serious consequences for disbelief.

~td~

[_Inconceivable]

Apostates: those individuals who actively fight against the LDS church.

Former members: Those individuals who have resigned from the LDS church and are now living a life without the LDS church.

I think that we are confusing the two on this thread.

Why me,

I'm not sure you know what you think you are saying..

Dictionary:
apostate >noun a person who renounces a belief or principle.

Apostate = Former member (and in many cases, resembles a majority of the membership within the Mormon church and every member of this forum)

[_Gazelam]

Dancer,

My apologies for being snarky. While I do understand your point, I don't understand where it is your making your statement from. I don't understand where it is your stand.

You seem to me to be making the arguement that there is no God, or that if there is that he (Or she/it in your case?) remains unknown.

What is it exactly that your trying to say? That no religion is true. Right, I got it.

Then what? If you believe in absolute truths, please express to me what it is I should be understanding in regards to my relationship to God.

Gaz

[_why me]

Apostates: those individuals who actively fight against the LDS church.

Former members: Those individuals who have resigned from the LDS church and are now living a life without the LDS church.

I think that we are confusing the two on this thread.

Why me,

I'm not sure you know what you think you are saying..

Dictionary:
apostate >noun a person who renounces a belief or principle.

Apostate = Former member (and in many cases, resembles a majority of the membership within the Mormon church and every member of this forum)

I don't think so. This was discussed once on MAD and I believe that it was widely assumed that apostate was an individual who attacks the church with words etc. Also, one who disagrees with church doctrine and openly preaches a different doctrine. Thus, excommunication follows.

A former member is just that....a former member or an inactive member is also not an apostate but if I start to preach the legalities of polygamy and call for its reinstatement, I would begin to apostacize.

[_why me]

Hi Why me... the idea that there are those who leave the church and can live life without the LDS church is near mythical.

With few exceptions, members have family and friends that are still involved in the church.. there are baptisms, weddings, family gatherings to attend (or not), there are parents who mourn for the loss of their children, families torn apart because of differing beliefs, pressure to return, prayers for reactivation, visitors doing their duty.

Similar to those who leave other religions with serious consequences for disbelief.

~td~

Well, it does depend on the family. But former members can live a life outside the church for themselves if they wish. Sure there are obligations but that would be true for any religion that one leaves. But one can still live one's own life.

[_Gazelam]

Inconceivable,

Women are banned from "holding" the priesthood and yet they can develop charity. Charity transcends the bounds of structured religeon and even cultures. Honestly, priesthood power may not be the goofproof catalyst to developing charity that you suppose it is.

The role of women in the church is of equal importance to that of the man.

While the man may hold the sealing power to make covenants and bind promises between God and man, women do something of equal importance. They create an enviorment around these individuals for the Spirit of the Lord to dwell in so that that covenant can be ratified.

No covenant with God that we make is aceptable without the binding presence of the Holy Ghost. Maintaining and keeping his company is a lifelong struggle and school of learning. This goes along with the old mantra that a man can build a house, but it takes a woman to make a home. A man can teach and instruct and use his priesthood to officiate in a covenant, but it is a woman who through her natural nurturing and loving manner quietly encourages and supports her family in the keeping of those covenants.

The title of Mother is of equal importance to that of Elder or Priest.