Girls are licked cupcakes...

[_Yoda]

"Licked cupcakes" - I thought Jesus was the only one that took a scar into the eternities.

That's the way it's supposed to work. Unfortunately, some of the most judgmental, gossipy people I have met are Mormons. This counterculture has always baffled me.

We preach one thing, and do another. It is very disheartening, and makes no sense.

The experience you wrote here is a prime example of the devastation that this type of behavior can cause. It is the complete opposite of acting Christ-like.

[_cinepro]

She would express to me how a few of the married women would look away (shunning her) and some of their husbands would give her an extra gaze like she was a peice of candy while walking down the hall at church.

I think we need to be careful about the specificity with which we can read others' minds based solely on things like "glances" and "gazes". Perhaps the women didn't want her to feel like they were staring at her, and the men were just looking at her for the usual time allotted for such things? Until someone actually says or does something (and establishes a pattern, like Relief Society women continually moving to different chairs when the girl sits down next to them, or the men actually making comments or gestures), I think we need to give people the benefit of the doubt.

After all, we do have a thread at this very moment about the unintentional social cues people can send. I'd hate to judge someone (or be judged) based solely on the microseconds of time they do or don't look at me as I pass them in the hallway at Church.

[_Yoda]

She would express to me how a few of the married women would look away (shunning her) and some of their husbands would give her an extra gaze like she was a peice of candy while walking down the hall at church.

I think we need to be careful about the specificity with which we can read others' minds based solely on things like "glances" and "gazes". Perhaps the women didn't want her to feel like they were staring at her, and the men were just looking at her for the usual time allotted for such things? Until someone actually says or does something (and establishes a pattern, like Relief Society women continually moving to different chairs when the girl sits down next to them, or the men actually making comments or gestures), I think we need to give people the benefit of the doubt.

After all, we do have a thread at this very moment about the unintentional social cues people can send. I'd hate to judge someone (or be judged) based solely on the microseconds of time they do or don't look at me as I pass them in the hallway at Church.

Agreed. I was actually referring more to Inc's comment about the bishop telling this young woman that she was forever tainted. That, combined with the shunning of her peers, which Inc also mentioned, could be a devastating "double whammy".

And, frankly, I think that the bishop was WAY out of line in his comments. He needs to read the scriptures more.

[_Inconceivable]

She would express to me how a few of the married women would look away (shunning her) and some of their husbands would give her an extra gaze like she was a peice of candy while walking down the hall at church.

I think we need to be careful about the specificity with which we can read others' minds based solely on things like "glances" and "gazes".

They looked her up and down. It made her feel cheap. She would share her feelings with me and cry about it. It was pretty cold. She desperately wanted to fit back in. It just wasn't possible to be re-accepted into the Rameumtum social club.

Yeah, guys do have it much different.

When a young man qualifies for a mission (miraculously or otherwise) and doesn't come home early - he belongs. The stigma has vanished. If the word gets out (and it does), a penitent young woman will suffer the rest of her life.



...
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.
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[_karl61]

They looked her up and down. It made her feel cheap. She would share her feelings with me and cry about it. It was pretty cold. She desperately wanted to fit back in. It just wasn't possible to be re-accepted into the Rameumtum social club.
Yeah, guys do have it much different.

When a young man qualifies for a mission (miraculously or otherwise) and doesn't come home early - he belongs. The stigma has vanished. If the word gets out (and it does), a penitent young woman will suffer the rest of her life.



--------------------------------------------------------------------

welcome to the real LDS church. That was my experience and likely the experience of other youth too. It can create psychological trauma and hopefully she found a good therapist who told her that her Bishop was full of shi#; she realized her therapist was right.
It took over twent five years until I heard the term "borderline personality disorder" and what brings it on. I hope her life was different than mine.

[_Jason Bourne]

Yeah, guys do have it much different.

When a young man qualifies for a mission (miraculously or otherwise) and doesn't come home early - he belongs.

And if he comes home early then what? You don' think he has a stigma?

The stigma has vanished. If the word gets out (and it does), a penitent young woman will suffer the rest of her life.

In times past more so in some places. In others not at all. Today I think it is less in most placed though some are still less forgiving and merciful.

Mercy it is a critical element to the command to forgive. Also to be forgiven. We must forgive to be forgiven according to the gospel and one without mercy struggles to forgive.

One thing I think is that you forget that everyone, even LDS, are learning to be more charitable and merciful. Some make more progress than others. Do you have mercy towards those who are less merciful than you or than you think they should be? Or do you only have harsh and condemning words?



...
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.[/quote]

[_Daniel Peterson]

and boards with permanent nail holes and chewed pieces of gum. No amount of repentance can apparently make them clean or whole again. They are stained forevermore by their association with a guy who kissed or screwed them.

How come the guys aren't held to the same standard? Too many of these 'young Priesthood holders' get girls pregnant and are not held accountable. Too many of them introduce these girls to sex and life experiences and the girls come out 'tarnished and trashed' but nothing happens to the little pollinating player. He gets off scott free while she is now a slut.

How about some payback and accountability for these oversexed little slobs?

So far as I know, this hasn't been the approach in any ward where I've been a member.

I guarantee that it isn't the approach in the ward where I serve as bishop.

[_Inconceivable]

One thing I think is that you forget that everyone, even LDS, are learning to be more charitable and merciful. Some make more progress than others.

Jason,
Contrary to what the Mormon church teaches, I believe the institution is only as good as its people - not the other way around. This particular ward could not have been so different than the sum of it's stake, region or the entire church. Perhaps the church is learning to become more charitable? How can this be?

Either the church as a whole teaches the principles that Christ taught or it's something less. Members can only emulate what they have been taught and what has been emphasized. The church is imperfect (contrary to what many TBM's say about an institution that functions upon the rock of revelation). It is run by suits, not an immortal Savior named Jesus.

I seriously doubt a Savior that is capable of cleansing one from sin would rather see a young boy or girl return to their parents in a PINE BOX than to figuratively "lose" an intangible such as virtue.

Do you have mercy towards those who are less merciful than you or than you think they should be? Or do you only have harsh and condemning words?

Depends upon who it is, Jason. Those that are the authors of teaching crap like pine box doctrine or SWK for teaching what he did not understand, No. I would expect nothing less of others if they were judging me.

[_The Nehor]

I seriously doubt a Savior that is capable of cleansing one from sin would rather see a young boy or girl return to their parents in a PINE BOX than to figuratively "lose" an intangible such as virtue.

Let's see, have your child escape from pain and care and go to a place of joy (though I will suffer a bit) or watch them endure the pain and difficulty that come from confessing and repenting of serious sin?

I'm not a parent but I'm guessing the first is a higher display of love (you suffer and they don't) then the latter.

[_Inconceivable]

So far as I know, this hasn't been the approach in any ward where I've been a member.

I guarantee that it isn't the approach in the ward where I serve as bishop.

Dan,
You've never explained how it's done in your ward or anywhere else. If you're not too afraid of a little scrutiny why don't you do a little more than comment on what it is not?