Problems With Christianity

[_Roger Morrison]

It is REALLY hard to believe that thinking, intelligent beings can be so mislead and duped to believe in any form of a "God" as presented in Judeo-Christianism. Or, in any other religion that I am aware of...

And despite there being thinking, intelligent beings for thousands of years only in the last few centuries has atheism gained any traction. Are we that much smarter then everyone who went before or is this just another one of those phases every time period goes through? (UL added by RM)

Good question Nehor. I'll get back to it tomorrow...
Roger
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[_Chap]

What is this thing you have about Latin? How does it help your case to quote scraps of it when talking about your deity?

This is not difficult. Latin is one of the languages in which Christian ideas were articulated.

So was Aramaic. So was Koine Greek. So was Coptic. So was Amharic. So was Church Slavonic. So was ... pretty well every language of the ancient world in contact with the Mediterranean, and a very large number of later languages elsewhere, in which significant theological writing has been done and continues to be done.

But when addressing an audience that one cannot presume to know any language other than English, there would be little point in quoting any of those tongues, unless some specific linguistic point is at issue (as, for instance, whether 'mon' means good in ancient Egyptian as Joseph Smith claimed it did).

No: I can think of one reason. It may be that you are one of those Roman Catholics who think that Latin is in some way a specially 'Christian' language, so that a Latin theological term will always be superior to its English equivalent. A bit like those Protestants who think that 17th century English, or some pale imitation thereof, will always be more suitable for 'sacred' purposes than contemporary vernacular. But if the Judeo-Christian deity is real, it seems most unlikely that he would have a preference for any one human language as a medium for discourse to or about him.

Still, that is all speculation, and more or less off topic ...

[_Jason Bourne]

This reminds me of the pro-babykiller's position that it's ok to kill babies, but then get offended when someone posts a picture of an aborted baby. The outrage they feel for having to witness the abortion, but give no thought to their implicit support for said abortion.

Jason, your god created that cannibal. Your god knew what he was doing when he formed that cannibal, whenever, and knew what he would do under earthly conditions. He has to know because your god is all-knowing, alpha and omega, etc...

And you support that because you worship that god.

But then you feel MORE outrage at me because I would simply illustrate your god's bloodlust rather than anger directed at your god for having actually created the thing. Your god created a cannibal that murdered another human and then ate it. And you feel MORE outrage at me for simply showing people your god's creation

Holy smokes. Did you even read the rest of what I wrote?

That doesn't seem odd to you?

What is odd is you ignored half my response.

[_Jason Bourne]

quote="liz3564"]

Can we delete the disgusting picture please?

(Moderator Note) I have left the link, but removed the actual image. You now have the choice to click on the link if you want to see the picture, but it is not in blatant sight.[/quote]

Without the "image", I would not have been drawn to the "link". While you have the authority & power to censor, as you did, I think you have abused that power. How many objections--other than Jason's--did you receive?

The photo was horrible and very disturbing, but I assume it was/is real. It did not hurt or harm me in any real way. In fact it informed me and drew my attention to the degree to which humans can devolve and be conditioned and indoctrinated to behave. Hideous as it was/is, and educating in its reality, no one, without going through the hoop set by personal autocratic supersensitivity on an adult site, can any longer view it...

That attitude falls into Packer's realm much criticized here, "...some truths being better than others, that are best hidden..." or thoughts to that effect...

That this photo draws attention to the absurd, unfounded belief in a loving "God" is more at the front of its removal than believers want to admit--IMSCO... I can't imagine atheists, agnostics, unbelievers removing it from public view... Enough said...
Roger
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Oh hell just put the picture back. Last thing I want is a debate because of my complaint.

[_The Nehor]

This reminds me of the pro-babykiller's position that it's ok to kill babies, but then get offended when someone posts a picture of an aborted baby. The outrage they feel for having to witness the abortion, but give no thought to their implicit support for said abortion.

Jason, your god created that cannibal. Your god knew what he was doing when he formed that cannibal, whenever, and knew what he would do under earthly conditions. He has to know because your god is all-knowing, alpha and omega, etc...

And you support that because you worship that god.

But then you feel MORE outrage at me because I would simply illustrate your god's bloodlust rather than anger directed at your god for having actually created the thing. Your god created a cannibal that murdered another human and then ate it. And you feel MORE outrage at me for simply showing people your god's creation.

That doesn't seem odd to you?

That cannibal is my brother and a fellow human being on this planet yet you act like the greatest crime is that God allowed him to exist. Better get on correcting that. According to your worldview murder should do it.

[_Yoda]

Without the "image", I would not have been drawn to the "link". While you have the authority & power to censor, as you did, I think you have abused that power. How many objections--other than Jason's--did you receive?

None. It was my call. I stand beside the call. If Shades disagrees, he's free to override me.

The photo was horrible and very disturbing, but I assume it was/is real. It did not hurt or harm me in any real way. In fact it informed me and drew my attention to the degree to which humans can devolve and be conditioned and indoctrinated to behave. Hideous as it was/is, and educating in its reality, no one, without going through the hoop set by personal autocratic supersensitivity on an adult site, can any longer view it...

I appreciate your feeling. Obviously, there were others, including myself, frankly, who felt differently. Honestly, I think you're being a little overdramatic in stating that I am presenting some huge hoop for someone to jump through. How hard is it to click on a link? I didn't delete the image. Anyone who wants to view it is still free to view it. All I did was state that the image is graphic. You, yourself stated that you found the image hideous. How did I misrepresent the image in any way? I really am surprised that you consider this high-handed censorship.
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[_KimberlyAnn]

Chap, you've reached Godhood and I think you did it on my thread.

Congratulations! I know MDB Godhood is the height of achievement and you must be very proud. ;)

I appreciate your intelligent posts.


KA

[_antishock8]

That cannibal is my brother and a fellow human being on this planet yet you act like the greatest crime is that God allowed him to exist. Better get on correcting that. According to your worldview murder should do it.

Aside from the fact that you consider a cannibal to be your brother I can say that, for me, the greatest crime within the context of this discussion is that your god intentionally designed and then created a cannibal, unleashing it onto humanity knowing full well what it would do.

That is beyond disgusting and hateful. It's evil.

[_Jersey Girl]

Aside from the fact that you consider a cannibal to be your brother I can say that, for me, the greatest crime within the context of this discussion is that your god intentionally designed and then created a cannibal, unleashing it onto humanity knowing full well what it would do.

That is beyond disgusting and hateful. It's evil.

Why is the presence of the cannibal either disgusting, hateful or evil?

[_Jason Bourne]

Aside from the fact that you consider a cannibal to be your brother I can say that, for me, the greatest crime within the context of this discussion is that your god intentionally designed and then created a cannibal, unleashing it onto humanity knowing full well what it would do.

That is beyond disgusting and hateful. It's evil

The problem of evil and suffering are certainly issues of concern when one thinks about or delves into how and omnipotent and omniscient being could have created the world the way it is. It seems to me that traditional Christianity in fact creates more problems in this arena than LDS doctrine. As I have contemplated some of this I can understand how some Christian philosophers have come up with the ideas found in strict Calvinism. It results in a doctrine that is not appealing to me personally but I understand somewhat how is was arrived at.

To me LDS doctrine deals with some of this. Evil simply exists. All intelligences (what makes me me and you you) have been around forever and are co-eternal with God. Agency is a fundamental law of the Universe that God cannot take away. Perhaps that makes the LDS view of God less omnipotent than other views. The exercise of agency by eternal beings, both in this world and the world to come results in evil. God can put an end to ultimate evil but cannot stop it in the short term. I think 2 Nephi 2 about opposition in all things is a pretty good discussion of this topic.