Disaproved a TR for the first time ever.

[_Chap]

I am just controversial in general though and can't help it, I like to argue in opposition of everything even if it means contradicting myself because to me everything can be opposedd accepted similtaniously.

A statement that really contradicts itself (e.g. "Joseph Smith found ancient gold plates and Joseph Smith did not find ancient gold plates") cannot be true.

I do not believe that in the important affairs of life you do not try hard to act on the basis of true beliefs about the world. Suppose for instance that you want to get to Glasgow. Do you care whether it is true that the train on platform 4 is going to Glasgow, and not to London? Of course you do. So why are you not interested in finding out which of your beliefs relating to the CoJCoLDS are true, and which are not, and then only advocating those you believe to be true? You would be doing your audience a favor, and treating them with respect.

I was more honest with my testimony last sunday than anyone I have ever seen bear their testimony and I made people cry and so many people came up to me afterwards and even texted me. I told them I don't believe in church and I don't think the Book of Mormon is true, but I have a testimony in other areas and I know church is good and the Book of Mormon helps me in my life. I just find it hard to accept. Apparently I took 10 minutes, I felt bad.

Uh-huh. How can an organisation that teaches something untrue be 'good'? Wouldn't you be better off finding what the world is actually like, and trying to find a way to live in it without having to join in a 'let's pretend' game?

After all, as someone once said:

"Things are as they are, and their consequences will be what they will be. That being so, why would one wish to be deceived?"

[_Gazelam]

Jonas,

Glad to hear that your trying to find yourself spiritually. I know you've been working on this for a while, and I hope your checking good sources.

Start from what you know. You know that God is there and that hes real. Work your way out from there. If you know him as your Father, and That Christ was his Son, then your halfway home.

PM me if you want to build on that

Gaz

[_Chap]

Start from what you know. You know that God is there and that hes real. Work your way out from there. If you know him as your Father, and That Christ was his Son, then your halfway home.

Now if we were in a slightly different area of the small blue blob that we live on, you might have seen Al-Gazelam write to Yunis:

Start from what you know. You know that Allah is there and that he's real. Work your way out from there. If you know that Allah is one, and has no equal or offspring, and thatMohammed is his prophet, then you're halfway home.

... continue, with appropriate variations for Hindus, Zoroastrians et al.

Both Gazelam and Al-Gazelam are equally sure about what they 'know', and are equally convinced that the other is either wrong or has only 'partial light'. Neither of them sees much relevance in the fact that the 'knowledge' of religious people seems to depend almost entirely upon the accident of what culture they were born into: you 'know' what your parents taught you.

How can a state of mind that depends on an accident of birth be worthy of the title 'knowledge'?

When one is young, and if one is feeling a little confused about such things as religious belief, instead of starting from what one 'knows' (i.e. what one was brought up to believe, as for example the Judeo-Christian deity), it might be worth while spending some time questioning how far one can be said to 'know' anything of that kind reliably. Try the equivalent of an intellectual de-tox, and you may be surprised how nice and clear your mind begins to feel.

How about simply finding a wider social support group that (unlike your church) is not committed to the doctrines of a small sect such as the CoJCoLDS, and seeing what it feels like not to have any particular religious commitment at all? An increasing number of people today find that they can manage their lives perfectly well on that basis. Why not you?

[_Mercury]

I don't think it is nazi crap, I have an impact on people's beliefs, I don't purposefully do it, nor do I feel it but clearly if people are offended enough to share with the bishop in a manner that has him worried about my spiritual welfare and feels they are concerned then surely I must be.

Pirate, if your voice is not being heard and you are not being overtly disruptive, whats wrong with creating healthy debate in class?

It IS jackbooted to deny you a temple reccomend for making others think critically but quite frankly until you gather the fact that its how they control you then I don't think you will realise this.

[_Roger Morrison]

Pirate, sounds like you're in the position of most folks at sometime or another: Trying to find themselves in the real world... Some are successful in this , others are not.

I think CHAP gives some excellent advice, pasted below:

When one is young, and if one is feeling a little confused about such things as religious belief, instead of starting from what one 'knows' (i.e. what one was brought up to believe, as for example the Judeo-Christian deity), it might be worth while spending some time questioning how far one can be said to 'know' anything of that kind reliably. Try the equivalent of an intellectual de-tox, and you may be surprised how nice and clear your mind begins to feel.

How about simply finding a wider social support group that (unlike your church) is not committed to the doctrines of a small sect such as the CoJCoLDS, and seeing what it feels like not to have any particular religious commitment at all? An increasing number of people today find that they can manage their lives perfectly well on that basis. Why not you?

I think this will appeal, and work, IF you are really seeking truth and freedom...

On the other hand take Gaz's advice IF you are seeking confirmation of LDS indoctrination and the cloisterism it provides to those who, for whatever reason, need an Authoritarian control in their lives; as many do.

Or, if you enjoy some notoriety in your Ward/Branch, as the renegade (Pirate ;-) stay as long as you find it amusing. You do honestly know the Mormon Church isn't "The only true Church." Right??? by the way: what is LoC?
Roger...
*
*

[_moksha]

Being too controversial in Sunday School.

Pirate.

Wish you were in my Sunday class to add some color and excitement. I can well imagine that some members (perhaps the Bishop's wife?) are scanning for questions or answers that have some degree of variance from what would normally be expected. Internet Mormon thought and history would undoubtedly qualify as a variance.

[_JonasS]

Thanks for your posts I will get back when I have had a think and am not on my phone. I don't know what LoC means.

[_Dr. Shades]

Having admited to breaking the WoW and not being all that great with the LoC, . . .

I don't know what LoC means.

How can you know that you're "not all that great with the LoC" when you don't even know what the LoC is??

[_cinepro]

I don't know what LoC means.

If that's the case, you must be a popular date on a Friday night.

[_Yoda]

I have drunk alcohol since then lol. I don't enjoy it. I made a conscious decision not to, but haven't in a while. I haven't broken the LoC per say, just to their understanding of the LoC, I am still innocent as such, just shared some of my thoughts and feelings which he thinks are understandable. But I still am not worthy in those respects of the temple. Someone contacted the bishop about it in cofidence apparently. But bishop will tell me next semester who, this has happened before. Just never been told not to go to the temple. Haha.

OK, Pirate. I'm confused. You used the term, LoC, which I assumed meant "Law of Chastity" in the above paragraph.

Then, later, when Roger asked what the LoC was, you replied,

I don't know what LoC means.

Can you please clarify what LoC means, if it doesn't mean Law of Chastity? You used the term. I'm just trying to understand what you mean.