Depends upon who it is, Jason. Those that are the authors of teaching crap like pine box doctrine or SWK for teaching what he did not understand, No. I would expect nothing less of others if they were judging me.
Ah I see,
You have selective mercy. Just like those you condemn here.
Inconceivable wrote:I seriously doubt a Savior that is capable of cleansing one from sin would rather see a young boy or girl return to their parents in a PINE BOX than to figuratively "lose" an intangible such as virtue.
Let's see, have your child escape from pain and care and go to a place of joy (though I will suffer a bit) or watch them endure the pain and difficulty that come from confessing and repenting of serious sin?
I'm not a parent but I'm guessing the first is a higher display of love (you suffer and they don't) then the latter
I am a parent. I am with Inc on this one . The home in a pine box teaching is one of the worst from the LDS Church in my opinion. It seems to deny the power of Christ.
Inconceivable wrote:You've never explained how it's done in your ward or anywhere else. If you're not too afraid of a little scrutiny why don't you do a little more than comment on what it is not?
Sorry, but I'm not going to discuss my counseling as a bishop with members of my ward on this or any other message board, or in any other public venue. I don't even discuss it with my counselors.
But I can promise you that I don't condemn young women and let young men get away with serious sexual (or other) transgressions. And I've counseled innumerable times and spoken several times on the comprehensive and total forgiveness available through the atonement.
Sorry, but I'm not going to discuss my counseling as a bishop with members of my ward on this or any other message board, or in any other public venue. I don't even discuss it with my counselors.
But I can promise you that I don't condemn young women and let young men get away with serious sexual (or other) transgressions. And I've counseled innumerable times and spoken several times on the comprehensive and total forgiveness available through the atonement.
And my experience is similar to Dan's.
Though I do not deny that some misguided leaders don't or have not done poorly int this area.
Inconceivable wrote:If you're not too afraid of a little scrutiny why don't you do a little more than comment on what it is not?
Sorry, but I'm not going to discuss my counseling as a bishop with members of my ward on this or any other message board, or in any other public venue. I don't even discuss it with my counselors.
Compared to SWK, you're a better man then. He didn't seem to have a problem with it when he wrote his twisted book.
But I can promise you that I don't condemn young women and let young men get away with serious sexual (or other) transgressions. And I've counseled innumerable times and spoken several times on the comprehensive and total forgiveness available through the atonement.
Perhaps you are one of the good guys when you're not posting on this board.
Depends upon who it is, Jason. Those that are the authors of teaching crap like pine box doctrine or SWK for teaching what he did not understand, No. I would expect nothing less of others if they were judging me.
Ah I see,
You have selective mercy. Just like those you condemn here.
Just like? Even these blind guides can change (I did). However, the stigma they attach to those that have lost their "virtue" lasts forever.
yes sir just like. The teaching, which I agree is terribly wrong, is based in a lack of understanding mercy and the teaching that mercy over powers justice. You seem to have selective mercy. But hey mercy it tough to have.
Even these blind guides can change
Oh I think many have moved beyond the sad approach to using a club to teach chastity. Many have not. By the way, I have a lot of sensitivity about this teaching as well as it has impacted me in a number of very personal ways. I am not defending it. I am just trying to be merciful to those who taught it and perhaps understand them, where they were coming from, what motivated them, their culture and so on.
(I did).
Apparently not. You seem as harsh in many ways and lacking mercy as you think they were.
However, the stigma they attach to those that have lost their "virtue" lasts forever.
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Bad teachings certainly can hurt and scar. People can find truth and move beyond errors and become whole again as well.
I had a son who was guilty of fornication while in high school. He repented and served an honorable mission, married in the temple, and serves now in his elder's quorum presidency. He never attends church here in the ward he grew up in... never. He is still judged as he was when he was 17.
I had another son who was sent home early from his mission, due to health issues. He was unfairly judged as being send home for sin. He married in the temple, and serves now as a Primary teacher. He also never attends church here in the ward he grew up in... never. He is still judged as "lesser" by people who knew but don't believe, the reason he was sent home early.
I have a third son who never served a mission. He and his family attend church and he holds a stake calling. He also will never attend church here in the ward he grew up in... never. He is still judged as inadequate, even though the reason he didn't serve a mission had nothing to do with sin at all, and is no one's business in any case.
I have a fourth son who served a mission. While out on his mission, he seriously contemplated coming home early because he was pathalogically unhappy. His AP had him call home one day to talk to me. I put the decision back in his lap (as I always do), but recommended he talk to his older brother who had come home early to get his comments on the idea. This son decided to stick it out. I have no doubt that had he come home early, he also would never attend church in the ward he grew up in. As it is, he's happy to attend church here whenever they are in the neighborhood.
I might add: all of these sons are active, hold callings, and are well thought of, in the wards they now attend.
The cream will rise to the top. When it comes to judgmentalism and gossip, my ward is skim milk.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
