The Bitter Fruits of Apostacy

[_Gazelam]

Seven,

Everyones different. Not everyone deals with a straying family member the same way. My brothers leaving the church causes my mom no end of heartache, but they don't get preached to or ostracized. Just mild encouragement. Its hard, and frustrating, but what do you do?

My sister is the only one really who I have chosen to cut all contact with. She is the definition of evil in my eyes, and I don't know that I can ever see myself speaking to her again. Unlike my brother, who hates God, My sister still will attend on occasion, but her drug use and street mentality and whoring and child neglect and abuse are unforgivable.

I think every case is different. I don't know that you can broadbrush Mormon families response to apostate family members. that's like characterizing all apostates relationships to their active families. Are they all the same?

I dunno.

gaz

[_Gazelam]

Inconceivable,

You are under the delusion that in order for belief to be legitimate, it must be found within an organized religeon. Who do you think taught you this?

Peter, James, and John.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Gaz,

Wow! I'm not sure if I am a really poor communicator or if you don't want to or can't see the point. Either way...

The only reason you think the HG exists is because you were born into a religion that taught you this.

The only reason you think Adam and Eve were placed in Missouri six thousand years ago is because you were born into a religion that taught you this.

The only reason you think angels taught Adam and Eve is because you were born into a religion that taught you this.

The only reason your religious beliefs make sense to you is because you were taught them, (along with that huge stick for disbelief).

The only reason you think your "truth" is the one and only true one is because you were taught this hence you create your experience to confirm it.

Anyone can make up anything, doesn't mean it is truth.

The reasons you believe as you do are the exact same reasons the rest of the world believes as do they. No difference Gaz. None. You can't see this because you don't want to.

You keep asserting your point supported by your particular unique belief system, without realizing that you can't get out of it. Circular reasoning as they say. You seem to be unable to step back and see a bigger picture; perhaps afraid of what you might find?

Anyway...

The Holy Ghost and ancient and modern scripture tell me how right I am.

In other words, you are so invested in your particular belief system that you will find ways to confirm it, to do otherwise is to receive eternal damnation (LDS style), eternal separation from family and loved ones, loss of your kingdoms and Godhood and wives, and no longer considered the elect of God. Not easy to contemplate another idea.

See Gaz, again you confirm your beliefs based on the very mechanisms that gave you the belief. For whatever reasons you can't see this.

They also tell you if you'll listen.

OMG Gaz! You think you are the only one who listens? Can you see how arrogant this is? I know, I know the whole chosen of God thing. (sigh) Again, it is what you were taught. The world is filled with people seeking truth, praying to their God, striving to understand the mysteries of existence, and devoting their lives to Godliness.

The only reason you hold you hold yourself as the elite and chosen of God is because YOU were taught this.

To be honest, I think those who rigidly hold to their beliefs, who hold elitist views, who must continue to to hold their beliefs at all costs, who can't allow for deeper understanding, expanded awareness, and a more enlightened world view are the ones who don't listen.

~td~

[_Roger Morrison]

Seven,

Everyones different. Not everyone deals with a straying family member the same way. My brothers leaving the church causes my mom no end of heartache, but they don't get preached to or ostracized. Just mild encouragement. Its hard, and frustrating, but what do you do?

My sister is the only one really who I have chosen to cut all contact with. She is the definition of evil in my eyes, and I don't know that I can ever see myself speaking to her again. Unlike my brother, who hates God, My sister still will attend on occasion, but her drug use and street mentality and whoring and child neglect and abuse are unforgivable.

I think every case is different. I don't know that you can broadbrush Mormon families response to apostate family members. that's like characterizing all apostates relationships to their active families. Are they all the same?

I dunno.

gaz

Hi Gaz, I'm sorry to learn of your family grief. Were your sibs BIC? Especially am I sorry for the pains of your Mother... I don't want to sound "preachy" or to intrude into your family affairs, but you have gone "public" with them...

I wonder why you seem so bitter to your Sister that you come near, "...cutting her off..."? Do you have ideas of why your Bro & Sis became inactive?
What is "mild encouragement?"

If you'd feel more comfortable with a 'PM', that might be better??
Warm regards,
Roger
*
*

[_harmony]

The role of women in the church is of equal importance to that of the man.

When this is spoken/written by a man, you just know he's full of baloney.

While the man may hold the sealing power to make covenants and bind promises between God and man, women do something of equal importance. They create an enviorment around these individuals for the Spirit of the Lord to dwell in so that that covenant can be ratified.

This is also baloney. So men have nothing to do with creating a spiritual environment in the home? They're just sperm donors, becaues they have more important... priesthood kind of stuff... things to do. Right.

The title of Mother is of equal importance to that of Elder or Priest.

No, the title of Mother is of equal importance to that of Father. The priesthood has nothing to do with parenting, and everything to do with the power differential.

I'm surprised TD let this one slide by without taking you to the woodshed, Gaz.

[_Ray A]

My sister is the only one really who I have chosen to cut all contact with. She is the definition of evil in my eyes, and I don't know that I can ever see myself speaking to her again. Unlike my brother, who hates God, My sister still will attend on occasion, but her drug use and street mentality and whoring and child neglect and abuse are unforgivable.

With that comment, Gaz, you don't strike me as a follower of the teachings of Christ. I would go as far as to call you a bigot.
>
>
>

[_ludwigm]

My sister is the only one really who I have chosen to cut all contact with. She is the definition of evil in my eyes, and I don't know that I can ever see myself speaking to her again.

... we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets...

The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

My wife was a member of Reformed Church. Her father was a minister of good standing. Fortunately, he was dead long before his daughter apostatized to Mormonism. (or have You better definition for that event?)
Her siblings (4) have said at the beginning "our father is turning in his grave" but NEVER cut the contact.
After a short time, they accepted it some way. The remaining effect is the sarcastic stress on "you saints". You know, in hungarian language doesn't exist the underlined item of the definition.

- 1.
- - 1. (Abbr. St. or S.) Christianity. A person officially recognized, especially by canonization, as being entitled to public veneration and capable of interceding for people on earth.
- - 2. A person who has died and gone to heaven.
- - 3. Saint A member of any of various religious groups, especially a Latter-Day Saint.
- 2. An extremely virtuous person.

Interestingly, their church has NO "proclamation" about family.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Harmony,

I'm surprised TD let this one slide by without taking you to the woodshed, Gaz.

LOL... I'm surprised too! Opps!

OK.. better get to it!

The role of women in the church is of equal importance to that of the man.

Gaz, so long as one covenants to FOLLOW another they are not equal. So long as one has rights, privileges, and opportunities not afforded to another then are not equal. Don't even pretend they are.

While the man may hold the sealing power to make covenants and bind promises between God and man, women do something of equal importance. They create an enviorment around these individuals for the Spirit of the Lord to dwell in so that that covenant can be ratified.

In spite of your assertion Gaz, both parents create the home environment. And, this has nothing to do with the very clear "male privilege" in LDS belief.

Gaz:

The title of Mother is of equal importance to that of Elder or Priest.

Harmony:

No, the title of Mother is of equal importance to that of Father. The priesthood has nothing to do with parenting, and everything to do with the power differential.

Exactly as Harmony stated.

A mother and father are given their role as they produce/have children.

This has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the fact that a woman, in the LDS church covenants to follow her husband. (For those who are unaware, even in modern day the sealing ceremony used to require a woman OBEY her husband).

Still, there is NO equality or real partnership or even true intimacy when one spouse has authority over the other, when there is unequal distribution of power, when one must lead or preside over the other.

There just isn't Gaz.

It is like saying a slave is equal to his master if the slave holder claims they are equal. They are not.

Women in the LDS church, regardless of your assertions are not equal to men.

In the LDS church priesthood men claim to have the very power of God to act in His name... and you think this doesn't create inequality in a marriage?



~td~

[_Inconceivable]

Women in the LDS church, regardless of your assertions are not equal to men.

In the LDS church priesthood men claim to have the very power of God to act in His name... and you think this doesn't create inequality in a marriage?
~td~

When you think about it, Mormon women are given no claim to the power of the Mormon heavenly mother(s) to act in her (their) name(s).

Perhaps because she (they) have no power either.

Besides:

63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth..
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 132:63)

Until a day comes when a Mormon man is given to a woman..

well, let's just dream on.

[_harmony]

When you think about it, Mormon women are given no claim to the power of the Mormon heavenly mother(s) to act in her (their) name(s).

Perhaps because she (they) have no power either.

Perhaps because her sons refuse to acknowledge her existence... and maybe they do that, because they fear her as much as they fear their sisters.