What do BHO fans think about him now.

[_Dr. Shades]

Better than FDR?

Are you kidding? Franklin D. Roosevelt was arguably the worst president in the entire century.

[_Bond James Bond]

Better than FDR?

Are you kidding? Franklin D. Roosevelt was arguably the worst president in the entire century.

Who in the hell would argue that he is the "worst"?

[_Jason Bourne]

Hi Richard,

I'm not saying I agree with everything President Obama has done.

What I do know is that we are in an extraordinarily difficult time and I doubt anything is going to solve our problems next week, or next year.

The mess we are in, (thank you Bush and his cronies), is one that is unlike anything we have ever faced before. The world is more complex and interconnected than ever in our history, and I don't think anyone can truly predict with much accuracy how any scenario will play out.

~td~

To blame Bush and crew for this mess is extremely naïve and narrow. This mess is the result of almost 30 years of mismanagement on many angles and guess who can shoulder a lot f the burden? Us! We have overspent, over borrowed and under saved. The mess we are in is much as much a result of that by American in general as well as our political leaders who have done much of the same.

And how are we being encouraged to get out of it? Spend more and borrow more!!! Go figure.

[_Jason Bourne]

I would argue that we are in uncharted territory. The world is much, MUCH different than ever before and our problems enormously more complex.

Why? What is uncharted? What is different than what we have had for the past 30-50 years? I am genuinely curious as to what in the economic landscape makes things so fundementally different than they have been?

We can search the history books and while they may provide insight, they do not give us the answers for this current situation in which we find ourselves.

Why? And guess what? Ben Bernake, Henry Paulson and Tim Geitner are doing just that. They are looking at history and trying to do things that they think are different than what may have driven us into the great depression. They are also following the historical precedent of Keyensian economics. They are doing nothing new. Nothing. And in the process they may actually make the problem hugely worse. Politicians hate rescission not because of the pain it causes us but because they will not get re-elected when there is one. But some recession and corrections can be good for the overall long term economic viability of a nation. But our leaders won't bear it so they spend, spend, spend to keep us out of one or get us out of one.

In my opinion, we have put band-aids on some serious problems and are now in a position where we MUST actually fix the problems in order to survive.

What are the band aids and what is being done that is better?

[_cinepro]

We can search the history books and while they may provide insight, they do not give us the answers for this current situation in which we find ourselves.
~td~

Actually, you could find some very helpful history if you looked in Japan's history books. They faced a similar situation in the '90's, and decided to fight it tooth and nail by diving interest rates and plundering their savings. Didn't work.

Sadly, we don't have any savings to plunder, so they were better off than we are, and it was still a disaster.

Edit to add: Looks like we'll be Sweden instead of Japan.

[_truth dancer]

Hey Jason,

Of course the problem is not simple... I didn't mean to imply it was. Having said this, the past eight years have been a disaster in virtually every area we can measure. We need to seriously change direction.

This world in which we find ourselves is not the same as anytime in the history of our planet. Have you read any of Thomas Friedman's books? I think he sums up how our world is changing.

As Einstein said, "you can't solve problems with the same mind that created them" (or something along these lines). I think it is true.

The very mindset that has created our current situation has got to change in some major ways in my opinion.

~td~

[_Jason Bourne]

Of course the problem is not simple... I didn't mean to imply it was. Having said this, the past eight years have been a disaster in virtually every area we can measure. We need to seriously change direction.

No the past eight years have not been a disaster by virtually every area we can measure. There have been problems sure, and failures. But there have been successes as well. If we just look at the economy Bush inherited a minor recession from the previous administration. The economy started to improve then we had 9/11. Even with that the rebound was pretty good up tall the past year or so. And one can argue that the main problem that fueled the economic bust,and that is bad housing loans, had very little to do with the Bush administration.

Next we have not had a terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11.

Also, in my opinion, the two supreme court judges that Bush nominated were a great success.

This world in which we find ourselves is not the same as anytime in the history of our planet. Have you read any of Richard Friedman's books? I think he sums up how our world is changing.

No I have not read his books. Give me some examples.

As Einstein said, "you can't solve problems with the same mind that created them" (or something along these lines). I think it is true.

Well apparently our leaders are not heeding that advice because they are not doing anything new. They are just doing similar things on a larger scale.

The very mindset that has created our current situation has got to change in some major ways in my opinion.

What would you change?

[_moksha]

Better than FDR? Psshhh. I think you folks lived during the good 80s years and that makes you think kindly of ole Ronnie. I won't deny that he's probably one of the Top 3-5 of the 20th century [I think both Roosevelts were at least as good] but I have a feeling that as the years pass people will realize that he isn't the "greatest President ever" as I've seen in some polls.

Here is the real dope:

1. Abe Lincoln
2. George Washington
3. Franklin Roosevelt
4. Teddy Roosevelt
5. Harry Truman

.

[_richardMdBorn]

Hi Richard,

I would argue that we are in uncharted territory. The world is much, MUCH different than ever before and our problems enormously more complex.

We can search the history books and while they may provide insight, they do not give us the answers for this current situation in which we find ourselves.

The best economists in the world are still guessing.

In my opinion, we have put band-aids on some serious problems and are now in a position where we MUST actually fix the problems in order to survive.


~td~

Some things are clearly true in economics. Taxing a behavior leads to less of it and subsidizing a behavior leads to more of it. One of the achievements of Clinton and the Republican congress of 1996 was welfare reform. Even Democrats who opposed it admitted that it worked. This is gone with the "stimulus package". It will lead to a massive misallocation of resources.

[_Bond James Bond]

Here is the real dope:

1. Abe Lincoln
2. George Washington
3. Franklin Roosevelt
4. Teddy Roosevelt
5. Harry Truman

.

That's probably what my top 5 would look like, with 5 probably being a tie between Truman and perhaps Jefferson.