Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??

[_Dr. Shades]

I'm sure we can all agree that calling someone a "self-righteous prick" is far, far more offensive than the biblical metaphor "kick against the pricks."

Does the word "prick" when used as an insult (as opposed to when it's used to describe a low-tech cattle prod) rise to the level of the "c" word in the offensiveness scale? I don't know; I'm asking y'all's opinion.

Either way, will it solve this whole controversy if harmony agreed to never call anyone a "self-righteous prick" ever again?

[_Ray A]

Does the word "prick" when used as an insult (as opposed to when it's used to describe a low-tech cattle prod) rise to the level of the "c" word in the offensiveness scale? I don't know; I'm asking y'all's opinion.

No it doesn't. The "c-word" is particularly offensive in society itself.

Either way, will it solve this whole controversy if harmony agreed to never call anyone a "self-righteous prick" ever again?

What controversy? I doubt that it mortally wounded Dan. When posters go to that level (ahem, something I should know about), it only weakens their arguments, which is why I'm not in favour of censorship. You live and learn.

[_Yoda]

I'm sure we can all agree that calling someone a "self-righteous prick" is far, far more offensive than the biblical metaphor "kick against the pricks."

Does the word "prick" when used as an insult (as opposed to when it's used to describe a low-tech cattle prod) rise to the level of the "c" word in the offensiveness scale? I don't know; I'm asking y'all's opinion.

Either way, will it solve this whole controversy if harmony agreed to never call anyone a "self-righteous prick" ever again?

Frankly, I don't find the word, "prick", quite as offensive, in its slang term, as the word, "cunt", but I would rate it a close "second". Whether you decide to use the word censor on it or not is up to you.

Of course, I'm pretty liberal when it comes to allowing swearing in Terrestrial. If I had it my way, I wouldn't censor the word, BS. However, I respect your decision to do so.

[_Nightingale]

Would it make any difference to our perception of this if it was antishock who had directed that term at DCP? That is a good way to examine the ins and outs of this kind of thing. Do we see it differently because it was a female poster who used it? Is it different because said poster is LDS? etc. Just wondering because I find this interesting. Again, sorry to Wayneman, whose thread we are borrowing to have such a romp down the garden path, way far away from his OP.

Re moderation - I think the more moderation there is the more subjectivity you introduce. Then modding becomes a full time job and still can't keep everybody happy.

[_Wayneman]

Simply put, a lack of civility has never managed to change anyone's heart or mind.

Verbal (or written) attacks only serve to further cement the offended one's position.

[_harmony]

Since obviously no one reads what I write, I'll write it again:

harmony Post subject: Re: Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:45 pm

God

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:35 pm
Posts: 7463
Location: Shady Acres Status: MODERATOR
Blog: View Blog (0) Good grief.

I promise to never use prick again. Now I'll call him a self-righteous arrogant stick with a metal point on it.

How's that? Is that too sexual for anyone?

Good grief.

[_Ray A]

Do we see it differently because it was a female poster who used it? Is it different because said poster is LDS? etc. Just wondering because I find this interesting.

I think the real issue here is that harmony is a moderator, and Antishock felt it unfair because he was suspended for making a similar comment, but AS8 has a rather long history of this, and not always in the context of a serious discussion. He would often "pop in" to threads just to insult DCP, with no discussion context. While I was surprised that harmony used those words, I can also understand her extreme frustration, in the context of the discussion. She felt she was being unrighteously judged. It's not as if she just "poped in" to insult DCP. So I think context is important here, and also some allowances for a real sense of frustration.

Re moderation - I think the more moderation there is the more subjectivity you introduce. Then modding becomes a full time job and still can't keep everybody happy.

And trying to be consistent is almost a nightmare.

[_harmony]

I think the real issue here is that harmony is a moderator, and Antishock felt it unfair because he was suspended for making a similar comment, but AS8 has a rather long history of this, and not always in the context of a serious discussion. He would often "pop in" to threads just to insult DCP, with no discussion context.

I'm not exactly the world's greatest moderator. Liz is the one who really carries the weight of that here. I mostly just hang around and wait for someone to tell me they need coffee.

While I was surprised that harmony used those words, I can also understand her extreme frustration, in the context of the discussion. She felt she was being unrighteously judged. It's not as if she just "poped in" to insult DCP. So I think context is important here, and also some allowances for a real sense of frustration.

The whole thing goes back about 10 years, Ray. And in all those 10 years, Daniel never said he thought I was making a sexually charged vulgar comment. I guess I was totally clueless about what it was that he was offended by. I'm still somewhat bemused by all the flak. All this time, I'd thought he was PO'ed (I'll probably get hammered for saying "pissed off", so I'll use PO'ed instead, in case I have marg nagging at me again for making a comment that might refer to a physical substance) about the self-righteous and arrogant part. It never occured to me that he was upset about the .. *ahem*... stick with a sharp metal point on it, used to goad cattle.

So now I've promised to never use it again...here. Although I'm not saying I won't use it elsewhere, since I now have this wonderful new meaning to explore.

[_Ray A]

All this time, I'd thought he was PO'ed (I'll probably get hammered for saying "pissed off", so I'll use PO'ed instead, in case I have marg nagging at me again for making a comment that might refer to a physical substance) about the self-righteous and arrogant part.

Well we all know what marg really thinks of many MDB posters, post-marg-moderation, that they are "morons". At least you don't put on a "face".

[_Nightingale]

Ah. OK, I missed all that about antishock, DCP, etc. And I forgot (or didn't realize) that harmony is a mod. But all that underscores my other point, way back when, that perception is crucial, in so many ways. Maybe mods have to refrain from participating on certain threads (I think they do that, by and large) or, even more difficult, not get into anything personal with other posters at all? In other words, totally objective and detached mods would prevent any negative perceptions about favouritism or abuse of mod power. The trick is just to find such creatures!

Too, see how things can look so different when you're not personally involved. That might not help a current discussion about certain issues but sometimes it helps to put things into perspective.

I do often forget too that all the elements that go into making a good debate or discussion are not necessarily important to some posters, depending on the issues. I mean, it's not the universal and constant goal to always have a polite discussion. I understand that but need to remember it more readily when I'm reading some of the posts.

I am reminded of charity when harmony keeps saying "good grief"! Is that an LDS thing I wonder? It comes across to me as meaning something like what a big fuss you are making over nothing. But you have to see that it is noteworthy to at least some non-LDS people that an LDS woman would use a vulgar term against an LDS man, especially on a board that is inhabited by "apostates" and "critics" and is described by many LDS as being a stinking swamp (or whatever). One of my points was that it's not non-LDS who are talking to each other this way. That is mildly noteworthy to me. I'm not saying that DCP doesn't make rude comments too, although I'm not aware of the history of other boards, especially in the past. He might be rude sometimes, as well as other things that some posters don't like, but he has not been vulgar, as far as I know. Unless you want to say that "ass" is vulgar whereas "prick" is not.

Where I'm coming from on this is that in my Christian experience, as well as in my work, language is a big deal. Even mild cussing is definitely frowned on and just not heard, whether in church or in anything we write, even on message boards. I have to say it surprises me to see (not only here) some of the words that some LDS use. I realize that this is a minority position but it's where I'm at and have been. I am trying to loosen it up a little now but still am a long way from uttering or writing the more profane terms. I realize that's my issue. Words only have the power you give them, which makes it interesting to see the differences from culture to culture.

Anyway, next time harmony starts wielding her cattle prod at Daniel Peterson, maybe we can discuss her propensity for violence. {Jenn Kamp} Just to change the tune a bit. :)