The Bitter Fruits of Apostacy

[_Gazelam]

Harmony,

You are required to love your sister, Gaz. Required. You don't get to blow off anyone, let alone a family member.

your absolutely right.

Even crack whores will have their exaltation. Christ died for her sins also, and even the unrepentent will eventually be assigned a kingdom.

Here your wrong. While the resurrection part of the atonement is a free gift to all, the forgiveness part of the atonement applies only to those who make and keep covenants. No one "eventually" receives an exaltation. After the resurrection it will be glaringly obvious as to who is going where. Our resurrected bodies will reflect the degree to which we allowed the Holy Ghost to sanctify us.

1 Peter 4
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

We thought about getting some of her children, but we got shy of it when we thought about the stories they would tell our children and experiences they would share. Do we sacrifice all of our childrens innocence to save one of hers? We thought about it quite a bit.

She has worn away all of the help anyone wants to offer her. Shes 36 now, and frankly shes on her own. My parents are pretty much done with her. 18 years of financial and emotional draining have taken their toll.

I suspect there may be something in that "near perfect household" you don't know about.

Theres no secrets in my parents household. Theres no need for them. She was what you might call a bad seed. She took after my Fathers mother in nature, rotten from the womb, and an aberration.

Like the warden said.. "Some men, you just cain't reach, so ya get what we had here...."

[_Gazelam]

Roger,

I have to ask (since you have taken this public) what did her male role models exemplify--to her?

She grew up surrounded by the best men she could have ever met. All of them honorable and hard working, who loved their wives and family.

I suppose she decided to rebel against what was normal and seek after the opposite for some unknown reason. Her current view of my Father seems to be that of a money tree. It breaks his heart, but the only relationship that it is possible to have with her is a parasitic one.

[_Gazelam]

Gaz, it seems rather significant when believers and nonbelievers suggest you should have more charity in your heart. Could the members of this forum help in any way?

They are all right. I do need to be more charitable.

Help me? Some of you help me by example in your posts. carry on.

thanks,
Gaz

[_Gazelam]

Jersey,
Much thanks for your comments.

Having said that, what can be done for the children?

that's been a long struggle. She would have been out on the street a long time ago if my parents werent concerned for her kids having a home. We've thought about havign them move in with my parents, but when that was tried my mom about had a nervous breakdown with them living there. She was seriously losing hair and health at a rapid rate. My sister has that affect on normal people.

We thought about dolling out the kids to myself and my siblings, but no one really wanted to bring all of that drama into their homes. Some wanted the youngest because he was still the least affected and therefore carried the least amount of baggage, but it never played out. She fortunately shook loose her criminal husband, although truth be told he was only a symptom of her character and not a root cause. Shes set up now with a half decent home and a new enviorment, but by all reports its more of the same around there. At least its semi stable.

The two oldest have alot of anger issues, especially the oldest. Her second has a good nature to him and might be ok. The third has some issues due to a brief lack of oxygen when his father sat on him in a bean bag chair when as an infant he wouldent stop crying. Hes very smart, but slightly off. The youngest is a very good kid, and seems to be pretty aware of how wrong things are around his house, but he carries on anyway.

[_truth dancer]

I have to say I am basically blown away.

What sort of sick and perverted belief system teaches a person can be "rotten from the womb", a ""spawn of Satan, a "bad seed", an "aberration"?

Did you ever consider there may be some mental health issues? Some sort of abuse of which you are unaware? Some neurological abnormalities? Damaging Experiences that have created some serious dysfunction?

Do you think it is healthy (not to mention Christlike) to revel in hatred, celebrating with joy the eternal damnation of another rotting in Hell?

Gaz, you do know that your hatred and cruelty are only hurting you right?

You have stated your belief in the importance of obedience but seem to totally, completely, absolutely miss the two most important commandments... you know, say the one about loving others? What about "the least of these thy brethren (and sisters)"? What about the Golden Rule? How about the commandment to forgive others? How about the teachings on Charity?

I mean seriously, have you even read the teachings of Jesus Christ?

I truly do think some of your beliefs (which in my opinion are in some ways at odds with those of the LDS church) to which you hold so dearly are the very things blocking your understanding of life and behavior.

No one is suggesting anger, frustration, sorrow, etc. etc. are not normal emotions when dealing with those who have hurt us and our loved ones. But, I have to say your extreme hatred and your over the top pleasure in the pain of another is extraordinary.

Again, I wish your family peace.

~td~

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey,
Much thanks for your comments.

Having said that, what can be done for the children?

that's been a long struggle. She would have been out on the street a long time ago if my parents werent concerned for her kids having a home. We've thought about havign them move in with my parents, but when that was tried my mom about had a nervous breakdown with them living there. She was seriously losing hair and health at a rapid rate. My sister has that affect on normal people.

We thought about dolling out the kids to myself and my siblings, but no one really wanted to bring all of that drama into their homes. Some wanted the youngest because he was still the least affected and therefore carried the least amount of baggage, but it never played out. She fortunately shook loose her criminal husband, although truth be told he was only a symptom of her character and not a root cause. Shes set up now with a half decent home and a new enviorment, but by all reports its more of the same around there. At least its semi stable.

The two oldest have alot of anger issues, especially the oldest. Her second has a good nature to him and might be ok. The third has some issues due to a brief lack of oxygen when his father sat on him in a bean bag chair when as an infant he wouldent stop crying. Hes very smart, but slightly off. The youngest is a very good kid, and seems to be pretty aware of how wrong things are around his house, but he carries on anyway.

How old is the oldest?

[_Gazelam]

TD,

Did you ever consider there may be some mental health issues? Some sort of abuse of which you are unaware? Some neurological abnormalities? Damaging Experiences that have created some serious dysfunction?

Shes an open book. She has no mental health issues, the only abuse she ever received was from her husband she refused to leave and the drug dealers who wanted their money her husband had stolen. She was raised in the Beaver Cleaver household of familial love with every opportunity anyone could ask for. The only thing dysfuntional in that household was her.

Do you think it is healthy (not to mention Christlike) to revel in hatred, celebrating with joy the eternal damnation of another rotting in Hell?

No, I don't.

Gaz, you do know that your hatred and cruelty are only hurting you right?

Yes, I do.

truly do think some of your beliefs (which in my opinion are in some ways at odds with those of the LDS church) to which you hold so dearly are the very things blocking your understanding of life and behavior.

No, on the contrary. The only problem I have with my beliefs is my inability to apply them properly in regards to myself. They are a constant reminder of how much self improvement I have to do.

But, I have to say your extreme hatred and your over the top pleasure in the pain of another is extraordinary.

Imagine all of the hardships youve had dealt to you in your life by twists of fate turned around to where they were purposefully inflicted on you. That is what it is like to have this creature in your life. No matter what you councel and advise, the worst occurs.

I take no pleasure in her misery, because her harships affect my parenst both emotionaly and economically. I do revel in the thought of her finally seeing the scope of what she has sewn and the place she has earned for herself in the eternities due to her selfishness.

[_Gazelam]

Jersey,

How old is the oldest?

About 16 now.
.
.
.
.
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[_Jersey Girl]

Gaz, this:

Theres no secrets in my parents household. Theres no need for them. She was what you might call a bad seed. She took after my Fathers mother in nature, rotten from the womb, and an aberration.

Has personality disorder written all over it. Has she ever been evaluated for mental illness?

[_Gazelam]

Jersey,

Has personality disorder written all over it. Has she ever been evaluated for mental illness?

Heres one of my favorite stories in regards to my Fathers Mother.

She was coming to stay for a visit. My mom knew how things would be and wore herself down scrubbing the house top to bottom and getting things ready.

The morning after she arrived my Moms in the kitchen cooking a nice southern breakfast with all the trimmings. Grandma gets up and comes up the stairs and stands at the top surveying things. After looking around she walks to the refrigerator and kneels down, removing the baseplate she retrieves the drain pan from underneath. She then gets up and goes to the sink and washes it, then puts it back.

My sister isn't as intelligent or as cunning, but is just as sinister.

Its not a case of any kind of mental disorder. Its a genetic disposition of that strain of DNA to be rotten.

My Father inherited none of it in his personal character, hes the exact opposite, completely self sacrificing and loving and hard working. By family records it seems to jump generations.

I am unaware of any test results. Ill ask my Mom if she has ever been tested in that particular way, although she no doubt has been looked at.