Who's the biggest embarassment for the LDS church today?

[_Mister Scratch]

Mr. Scratch:
"...the OP asks "who is the biggest embarrassment," so, once again, based on the comments of the TBMs, I think the answer would have to be: Joseph Smith."

You think that Joseph Smith is the biggest embarrassment to Mormonism? Are you sure you're active LDS? (Or am I misunderstanding your point?)

You're misunderstanding my point. My point is that, according to the logic of DCP and the Nehor (by way of Terryl Givens) the "biggest embarrassment" in Mormonism would have to be Joseph Smith.

Also, why should it matter whether or not I am "active LDS"? Shouldn't my points rest upon their validity alone, regardless of my various affiliations or activities?

[_The Nehor]

This is the guy who wrote lyrics to the song "I believe in Christ" and came just short of telling the whole world that he'd received the 2nd Comforter, like unto the Brother of Jared and the Nehor.

I deny this claim.

[_The Nehor]

Also, why should it matter whether or not I am "active LDS"? Shouldn't my points rest upon their validity alone, regardless of my various affiliations or activities?

I would concede this point. If Scratch is LDS then he is my choice for biggest embarassment.

[_Nightingale]

You're misunderstanding my point. My point is that, according to the logic of DCP and the Nehor (by way of Terryl Givens) the "biggest embarrassment" in Mormonism would have to be Joseph Smith.

Oh, sorry. I didn't read it carefully enough.

Also, why should it matter whether or not I am "active LDS"? Shouldn't my points rest upon their validity alone, regardless of my various affiliations or activities?

Generally, perhaps. But I thought you were LDS and to say that Joseph Smith is an embarrassment to the church would be surprising, in that case. So yeah, sometimes it is noteworthy what your affiliation is. It does flavour our opinions and put things in perspective for readers.

But, it seems I misunderstood you. Sorry.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I think that Gadianton makes a very important and astute point here.

Shhhh!

When the Scratchite ritual known as "mutual public adoration" or "reciprocating endorsement" is in process, unbelievers should be quiet and, as far as possible, remain still. It's a matter of simple respect.

[Guest]

Bruce R. . . . virtually hated Christ

the brethren became very angry with Bruce R. for his public mockery of Jesus Christ

The author of these lines, if he intended them to be taken at face value -- I'm entirely open to the very real possibility that Gadianton has been engaging for many months now in some weird sort of spoofing charade -- has forfeited any genuine claim to be taken seriously. (As if his bizarre conspiracy theories about "Mopologetics" and his frequently uttered paeans to the peerless prose, ethereal sanctity, and unique Christlikeness of Mister Scratch haven't already been enough to do the job.)

[_moksha]

I would say the biggest embarrassment wasn't a person, but a thing. Significant political involvement in California Proposition #8, has turned many people against the Church. The exact people who otherwise would have benign or neutral feelings for the Church, and would have even spoken out for religious tolerance on the Church's behalf if they thought the Church was being unfairly persecuted.

[_Yong Xi]

I think that Gadianton makes a very important and astute point here.

Shhhh!

When the Scratchite ritual known as "mutual public adoration" or "reciprocating endorsement" is in process, unbelievers should be quiet and, as far as possible, remain still. It's a matter of simple respect.

I don't think the ritual is original with Scratch and Gadiantion. I believe this may be a copycat device learned from MAAD posters.

[_hobart]

I think it is a valid point about Bruce McConkie embarrassing the church for his views on christology and Christianity. Although I was never in the church when he was alive (so I'm not as familiar with him as some), I think that he might have derailed and fought against the program of Mormonism trying to assimilate into mainstream, respectable Christianity.

The 1958 version of Mormon Doctrine--which about gave McKay and the other Brethren a heart attack--is still being quoted in "anti-Mormon" literature as scandalous Mormon belief (even though all subsequent versions don't contain that original material).

[_Daniel Peterson]

I think it is a valid point about Bruce McConkie embarrassing the church for his views on christology and Christianity.

Maybe. Maybe not.

But that's not the point that Gadianton (or Pseudo-Gadianton) was making.