What do LDS generally believe about interracial marriage?

[_The Nehor]

I would caution anyone seeking a marriage across divides in economic, social, cultural, and/or religious barriers. The reality is that most racial divides are also cultural divides. These differences often involve differences of perspective in how a family operates and that creates tension. I have a friend who married a hispanic man who lived in a very hispanic household. When they were first married, there was some tension about their roles as they both saw them differently.

I don't think any of these make a marriage impossible but a smart person will take them into account.

Nehor, that's BS. I'm sorry my loincloth-clad friend, but that's BS. My fiancee is white, and we do not have any cultural issues. I get along fine with his family, he gets along with mine (to the extent that he can given how they treat me). To be honest, this "white" man is more "in tune" with "black" culture than I am.

We choose to live without labels. And I will continue to do so. Look at my avatar. How am I supposed to raise that child? He does not look "black". Am I to ingrain within his brain that he is a particular color, or do I choose to celebrate the six nationalities within him?

I know many an interracial couple, and they're all happy people. The only issues they come across are those of the people who are too ignorant to look past the differences in their skin color.

And as far as the church is concerned, EVERY SINGLE BLACK LDS FEMALE that I know is either still single, or married to someone who is not LDS.

One more thing. I was often pressured to date African men when I was LDS. It was all but blatantly stated that these were the only individuals that I could date. Do you know that culturally I have less in common with an African man than I do a White American male?

Thoughts...

No, it's not BS. You just said he's more in tune with black culture then you are. Assuming you're a part of said culture (I have no idea) then that's one obstacle overridden.

Let's examine the opposite though. I'm as white as they come. The song "White and Nerdy" comes to mind. I'm upper-middle class suburbanite through and through. Now let's say I married you. Would there be a big cultural divide? Based on what you've mentioned here in the past, I would say yes. I have dated outside my 'race' (if that word has any meaning) and some of them grew up in a similar culture and have a similar background. I believe that I would have a better chance making a life with them then I would someone of my 'race' who comes from a vastly different background.

The reason there were warnings about interracial marriage in the past (that had nothing to do with the Priesthood Ban) is that culture was determined much more by race then it is now. I hope that in the long term racial distinctions disappear and I still think the warnings about being careful about marrying someone from a different background will apply.

[_The Nehor]

If marriages can survive (and even require) a difference in gender, what possible obstacle could be presented by culture, race or socio-economic status?

Just because one divide is difficult to bridge does not justify adding smaller increments to the divide. :)

[_antishock8]

So, as recently as 30 years ago the Mormon church was openly discouraging interracial marriage?

I'm sure it had NOTHING to do with skin color and EVERYTHING to do with "culture".

Uh huh.

[_Sam Harris]

Nehor, there is only a cultural divide so far as people are unwilling to open their minds and adapt. I have dated outside my race for as long as I have been dating. I have learned new languages doing so, eaten new foods, gone new places. If you married me, not only would you be exhausted every morning before going to work, but you would find that we would probably have a lot in common. If you were to marry a relative of mine, you'd probably end up on Dr. Phil because your kids would be addicts.

It is a beautiful thing when people from different races and cultures can come together in love. Now, when I was a member, I saw no problem with other people of color finding white members to marry. The issue was only with black people. We were expected to date amongst ourselves, and since there were NO black American men in any of the wards I attended, we were left with African men who often had a different idea of how women were to act than the African American women that they dated. There was a huge disconnect there. One of the largest complaints my black LDS girlfriends had about African men was how persistent they were. I was stalked for a year by a guy who swore up and down I was his eternal companion. I smiled in passing once and he got my number from a mutual friend, looked me up on the internet, and kept showing up at my house. I don't know what's worse, his approach or the "feel me up" approach of men outside the church that I kept encountering for years.

Like I said before, out of all the interracial couples I know and have met, there is not this problem that you speak of. If it existed in the beginning, it dissipated because the people involved learned to open their minds. It happened in my family when my aunt married my uncle. My grandmother objected until she got to know Uncle Norman. Now she can't live without him.

[_Sam Harris]

If marriages can survive (and even require) a difference in gender, what possible obstacle could be presented by culture, race or socio-economic status?

Just because one divide is difficult to bridge does not justify adding smaller increments to the divide. :)

And this is why this world will perpetually be at war with itself, because people feel it's too much of an effort to look amongst the "differences" to see just how many similarities are embedded within.

It's really sad that people need to separate themselves based on what language they speak, food they eat, clothes they wear, and music they listen to. Becuase that is what culture is. We're all human, and we all have the same wants and needs. They may be shaped in some ways by our environments, but at the end of the day we all need the same things: love, understanding, acceptance, freedom, unity....

Why is that different because I am black and you are white?

[_Sam Harris]

Whether you approve of the priesthood ban or not -- or even whether I do or not -- is irrelevant to the point at issue.

Shades claimed that the penalty for interracial marriage under Brigham Young was death.

I asked for evidence.

He responded with a familiar quotation in which Brigham Young said that, under God's law, the penalty for marriage between a white man of the "chosen seed" and a black woman was death.

To which I responded that blacks represented a special case because of the priesthood ban, and that, accordingly, while Shades had demonstrated that death was the penalty -- at least in theory (Shades offered no evidence that it was actually so in practice) -- under Brigham Young for marriage between a white male priesthood holder (the "chosen seed") and a black female, he had in fact offered no evidence whatever for the notion that there was an actual death penalty under Brigham Young for interracial marriage generally.

Daniel, you are the king of twisting words around so that you do not have to answer the question.

[_Sam Harris]

So, as recently as 30 years ago the Mormon church was openly discouraging interracial marriage?

I'm sure it had NOTHING to do with skin color and EVERYTHING to do with "culture".

Uh huh.

Define "openly".

OF COURSE it has everything to do with culture. Because black folks are all victimized individuals with low intelligence who live in ghettos and participate in gang violence on a regular basis. They only listen to "black" music and only hang around black people. If you happen to find one who does not, rest assured that all of her family and friends do, and probably give her grief about her choices. Why would you marry into such a situation where your kids would probably be influenced?

Oh, and for the record, I was watching Gangland on the History Channel the other day. I had no idea the Crips were alive and well in SLC, that young boys were shooting each other up with BOMs in their pockets, banging monday through saturday, and in church on sunday. One guy even admitted to it on the show. They say they "separate the two", violence and their faith.

Wow.

[_Pokatator]

Just how many blacks did BY encounter in his time? Not many I would bet. How many incidents of interracial marriage could there have been in By's time? I would bet less.

But if this situation were to occur it sure would be quicker and easier to carry out and cover up than say..... MMM!

[_Jason Bourne]

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Young, Brigham. Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110.)

[/quote]

Nondoctrinal work. Evidence please.

In spite of BCs elementary school repetition about certain things being non doctrinal works (and that is debatable about the JoD) the words of the prophets mean something. Here we have BY, the man claiming to be God's spokesman stating "I shall tell you the law of God..."

Then we have BC nobody saying it is non doctrinal.

Who should we trust?

[Guest]

Shades claimed that the penalty for interracial marriage under Brigham Young was death.

I asked for evidence.

He responded with a familiar quotation in which Brigham Young said that, under God's law, the penalty for marriage between a white man of the "chosen seed" and a black woman was death.

To which I responded that blacks represented a special case because of the priesthood ban, and that, accordingly, while Shades had demonstrated that death was the penalty -- at least in theory (Shades offered no evidence that it was actually so in practice) -- under Brigham Young for marriage between a white male priesthood holder (the "chosen seed") and a black female, he had in fact offered no evidence whatever for the notion that there was an actual death penalty under Brigham Young for interracial marriage generally.

Does there need to be evidence it was enforced in order for his comment from the pulpit to be bad? Do you think the people listening to his talk took it seriously, or not? If a sheriff from the deep south in the 1950s said, "Any n**ger caught with a white woman will be hung from that tree, on the spot." Would you defend that sheriff, if no evidence could be found that he ever did execute a black person?