Bill Hamblin's idiotic Book of Mormon ''challenges''

[_EAllusion]

By the way, the argument I was referring to is here:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... opic=12015

It starts out with this post:

Vogel maintains that we can derive no evidentiary value supporting Book of Mormon plausibility from the NHM inscriptions from 6th century BC Southwest Arabia. For Vogel this is all mere coincidence.

I’d like to try to get a grip on the relative probability of Vogel’s claims of coincidence, that is, of Joseph Smith randomly inventing a name which is later discovered in the precise time and place he guess. To get a bit of a foundation of the range of probability, let us assume:
1- Joseph Smith is randomly inventing names to include in the Book of Mormon.
2- To make the data set better match the surviving ancient texts, let us drop the vowels from English, giving us twenty-one consonants.
3- Furthermore, let’s ignore the possibility that Joseph Smith might make names two or four, or five consonant clusters, and just deal with probability issues related to attempting to invent three consonant clusters as found in Semitic languages.
(These last two assumptions, by the way, help the 19C case).
Thus, we have the following situation.
Joseph Smith has 21 consonants from which to chose. Joseph Smith is limited to selecting three of the 21 consonants, and can place them in any order he wished. Joseph Smith can also use doubles (e.g. RBB). As I understand it, the number of possible permutations of 21 consonants combined in three letter clusters is
3^21 = 10,460,353,203
This amounts to roughly a 10.5 trillion to one chance of Joseph Smith randomly selecting the three letters NHM in that precise order from all possible triple combinations of the 21 consonants. Now, I’m no mathematician, so perhaps someone with knowledge of probability can tell me if I’ve understood the situation correctly.
Vogel believes this is mere coincidence, and lends no plausibility to the case for the historicity of the Book of Mormon. He is entitled to his opinion. I maintain that, on the face of it, such high levels of improbability for random hit increases the probability that the situation is not random, and therefore the plausibility of Book of Mormon historicity.

As hard as it is to believe with that opening salvo, it gets more awesome from there.

You know, I sometimes cry myself to sleep in fear that someone so capable of deftly weaving logic and knowledge into a graceful tapestry of argumentation might join this board. This argument is as unassailable as the walls of Troy.

[_Pokatator]

I'm picturing a great ape, beating his chest in the jungle.

You need to get out from in front of the mirror once in while Pete.

Everything isn't about you.

[_Calculus Crusader]

Joseph Smith has 21 consonants from which to chose. Joseph Smith is limited to selecting three of the 21 consonants, and can place them in any order he wished. Joseph Smith can also use doubles (e.g. RBB). As I understand it, the number of possible permutations of 21 consonants combined in three letter clusters is
3^21 = 10,460,353,203

No, Hamblin, even if it were completely random, which it's not, the number of words is 21^3=9261.

Now, I'm no mathematician...

No ****.

Thanks for that EA.

[_Runtu]

Now, I'm no mathematician...

No ****.

Thanks for that EA.

Somehow I feel better about being mocked by Hamblin. I was an English major, and even I know math better than that. :)

[_Daniel Peterson]

Everything isn't about you.

I'm glad to hear it. That's certainly not the impression I get from your posts.

[_Brackite]

I've told him, from time to time, about some of the buffoonery here. He's shown no interest.

(I admire him for that.)

Did you also admire the fact, that back in the Year of 2003, Your Friend Bill Hamblin was Posting on the Recovery from Mormonism Message Board?

[_Daniel Peterson]

Did you also admire the fact, that back in the Year of 2003, Your Friend Bill Hamblin was Posting on the Recovery from Mormonism Message Board?

I think what he said was correct, and worth saying.

[_CaliforniaKid]

No, Hamblin, even if it were completely random, which it's not, the number of words is 21^3=9261.

Thanks for crunching the numbers, CC. I figured there was something fishy there, but I was just sort of skimming the thread, so I wouldn't have tried to figure it out myself.

[_The Nehor]

Awesome Nehor

Thanks.

What did you teach in mission field? Nephites & Lamanites were tiny groups among hundreds of tribes in Americas? Go ahead tell me that I am lying when missionaries told me in 1976 Nephites & Lamanites were predecessors of all Native American Tribes.

I taught that the Book of Mormon was the religious history of a group of Israelites who fled to the American continent.

Intellectual cowards run when they face scrutinity. Publishing books is fine, how about discussing them with your adversary, oh I forgot, nobody outside Corridor takes him seriously when he talks about Book of Mormon fiction.

I run away from people who insist that they were abducted by a UFO and have returned to bring peace to the Earth. I guess my unwillingness to challenge them makes me an intellectual coward. So be it. I am personally convinced that one is only an intellectual coward if they flee conflict with actual intellectuals.

I can't say you or DCP are malicious; misguided fakers, defenders of baloney yes.

Thank you, I'm glad you are unwilling to say that.

You don't even dare to pimp here what you believe, you're always on defensive.

I used to, gave up when people refused to listen.

When I talk Fundy Christian believer at least he asks me to pray to God or he'll pray for me. You guys are no believers. DCP is supposedly a bishop, what is his ecclesiastical influence here, he doesn't come across as defender of faith.

I pray for people on this board all the time. I just consider it obnoxious to tell them about it. If the only thing holding you back is me not telling you to pray then I exhort you to pray and repent.

Sorry to disappoint ya but I have money and I'd put that amount very confidently on
DCP'S being a faker. I can't prove it but I know it. The guy is too smart to believe this crock.

Maybe you're not smart enough to realize your position is a crock. As evidence for this I'd like you to compare this post you made to his and see which is more incoherent and grammatically unsound.

[_Mister Scratch]

Did you also admire the fact, that back in the Year of 2003, Your Friend Bill Hamblin was Posting on the Recovery from Mormonism Message Board?

I think what he said was correct, and worth saying.

Are you sure, Dr. Peterson? Because this---among other things---is what he said:

Try the following on for size: "I get mad every time I think about those Kikes. The Kikes are so clannish; and they wear funny cloths. Those stupid Kikes always do what their Rabbis tell them. They think they should be obedient to God. What mindless Kikebots. They actually have 613 commandments; count ‘em--six hundred and thirteen. This proves they're a mind-control cult. You know, Kikes have committed murder and embezzled money. In fact, when a Kike commits murder, it's because he's a Kike. There is something about those Kikes that makes them violent. The Kikes are all rich, too. They control the money and politics of New York. Not just New York, they control Hollywood too, and want to control the politics of the entire country. Indeed, they are a threat to freedom and democracy. And their kosher rules are so-ooo stupid. They make me want to gag. Why shouldn't I eat a cheeseburger if I want to? You can't get a good ham sandwich in a Kike deli. I want a ham sandwich, and I'm not going to let those Kikes stop me from eating it. I sure hate those Kikes! They drive me nuts."

You really think this is "correct" and "worth saying"?