What do LDS generally believe about interracial marriage?

[_antishock8]

1. He's a bishop. They get some training.

2. He is a bishop in a college ward, so your comment about adolescent girls is misplaced. There are no adolescent girls in his ward.

3. He draws on his life experiences, the same as any counselor does.

4. Neither of those behaviors is outrageous or inappropriate, given his calling.

If you want to take on the calling of bishop, then have at it. But to take one bishop to task for doing what is outlined as his job... that's bogus.

What kind of state certified training do LDS Bishops receive? What kind of certified counseling training do they receive, and does is emphasize 'mixed-race' relations?

Mr. Peterson said he would press for details if an adolescent girl admitted she had been sexually active.

Being "Dr. Phil" doesn't make you a good counselor. It doesn't make you a responsible counselor, either.

edit: Oh, and Harmony, don't you think having a racist counsel you on race-relations is outrageous? I do. It's clearly in appropriate.

[Guest]

On the whole, it's not worth responding to antishock's vitriolic nonsense and, on the whole, I don't.

But there are two points on which I think I probably need to go on public record:

1) If antishock wants to build a case against me as a racist, there are several people he can interview for evidence:

a) He might give a call to the young black woman from British Guyana to whom, with my wife, I devoted roughly fifteen to twenty-five hours weekly and significant sums of my own money over the 3-4 months prior to her recent move back to a distant state. She called just this morning to give us an update on her situation there, and I'm sure she has lots and lots of dirt to spill on my hateful racism.

b) He might also want to call the young man from Zimbabwe whom I just ordained to the priesthood after his recent baptism and whom I've just endorsed for a transfer to BYU.

c) He should probably speak, as well, with the black co-chairman of our ward activities committee.

d) He should definitely have a chat with my black elders quorum president.

If antishock will drop me a personal message with his contact information, I'll happily invite these people to write or call him with tales of my vicious bigotry toward them.

2. I don't do psychological counseling. When I sense a need for such counseling, like other bishops, I refer the individual to professional counselors in the area. In many such cases, I subsidize the counseling to one degree or another with fast offering funds. I have, as a matter of fact, referred someone to professional counseling already this morning. (The stake president with whom I serve is, happily, a professional psychotherapist with a doctorate in the field. I've drawn on his expertise, too. Most recently last night, with regard to yet another case.)

Antishock is drowning in venom and spiteful personal contempt, for reasons that might be best understood by someone like my stake president, and there's nothing I can do about it. But that's no reason to let his falsehoods go uncorrected.

[_antishock8]

1) I'm not the one who agrees with his church's prior policies of denying the priesthood to Blacks was appropriate. That's racist. That's undeniable. Mr. Peterson is on record as agreeing with denying the priesthood to Blacks if it's up to the discretion of his prophet.

2) Mr. Peterson is NOT a certified counselor, is NOT married to a non-White, but somehow feels aptly prepared to counsel people on "mixed-race" relations.

What's tragic is we have a closet racist associating with Black people who probably don't know he agrees with his Church's historical policies regarding Blacks and the priesthood. But hey, he has "black friends"... So I guess he isn't racist. Yeah, right.

[_Daniel Peterson]

My post above was, obviously, directed to fair-minded and reasonable people, not to poor antishock8.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Mok,

Here are some more examples to aid us in our quest to understand LDS race relations:

When informed that a black Mormon in Massachusetts had married a white woman, Brigham Young told the apostles in December 1847 that he would have both of them killed "if they were far away from the Gentiles." (Quinn, D. Michael. The Mormon Heirarchy: Extensions of Power. Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997. p. 247.)

In December 1866 Brigham Young, Jr., wrote that "a nigger" was found dead in Salt Lake City, with a note pinned to the corpse: "Let this be a warning to all niggers that they meddle not with white women." The non-Mormon newspaper identified the victim as Thomas Coleman, "a member of the Mormon Church." Brigham Jr., then an ordained apostle and special counselor in the First Presidency, recorded no value judgment about this killing. (Quinn, D. Michael. The Mormon Heirarchy: Extensions of Power. Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997. p. 256.)

I think President Gordon B. Hinkley had the definitive answer when he said that no man can be a racist and be a disciple of Christ.

EXACTLY!

Just another example of why I like you! :-)

[_Daniel Peterson]

President Hinckley was clearly right about our more racially enlightened time.

But I feel extremely uncomfortable, personally, about the idea of viewing myself as, on the whole, morally superior to Abraham Lincoln or a superior Christian disciple to Albert Schweitzer -- both of whom held views that would, today, be considered racist and reprehensible. Nor do I feel qualified to sit in judgment on some of my own relatives of the much older generation, some of whose expressions on racial matters made me cringe with pain and embarrassment yet who were among the kindest and most service-oriented people I've ever known.

Preening self-righteousness, moral smugness, and lack of charity are also sins.

[_Chap]

DCP is an active supporter of a church whose history has not always been a shining example of leading the US towards interracial respect and fairness.

Further (as he has repeatedly emphasised to us in a series of pre-emptive avowals) it is highly probable that he suffers from many, many moral failings.

But I would like to say that I doubt that an active contempt and dislike for black people as black people is a major element in his spectrum of turpitude. I don't see that as being his style at all.

[_antishock8]

DCP is an active supporter of a church whose history has not always been a shining example of leading the US towards interracial respect and fairness.

Further (as he has repeatedly emphasised to us in a series of pre-emptive avowals) it is highly probable that he suffers from many, many moral failings.

But I would like to say that I doubt that an active contempt and dislike for black people as black people is a major element in his spectrum of turpitude. I don't see that as being his style at all.

I don't think he actively feels contempt toward them, whatever that means. But I do think he feels a racial bigotry toward them, as evidenced by his statements and support of his church's doctrines regarding race and the priesthood. I can't imagine looking at someone was inherently deficient on an eternal scale, so much so that God Himself would prevent them from having the priesthood, and in fact, would cause "spiritual death" to come up on them and those who got into "mixed-race" relations with them, and be free of all bigotry when attempting to counsel them on "mixed-race" relations.

He's not certified as a counselor.

He's admitted to supporting racist doctrines.

I don't hate the man, but I think he's clearly out of his depth, and out of his mind if he thinks he's "qualified" to counsel "mixed-race" couples on life and marriage other than outside the scope of Dr. Philsian quips and couplets. It's too bad he's seen as having some sort of authority over them. It's not a good thing for young couples, much less "mixed-race" couples getting advice on racial matters and marriage/life from this guy.

[_truth dancer]

President Hinckley was clearly right about our more racially enlightened time.

But I feel extremely uncomfortable, personally, about the idea of viewing myself as, on the whole, morally superior to Abraham Lincoln or a superior Christian disciple to Albert Schweitzer -- both of whom held views that would, today, be considered racist and reprehensible. Nor do I feel qualified to sit in judgment on some of my own relatives of the much older generation, some of whose expressions on racial matters made me cringe with pain and embarrassment yet who were among the kindest and most service-oriented people I've ever known.

Preening self-righteousness, moral smugness, and lack of charity are also sins.

I don't think GBH felt superior or smug at all, nor do I think he lacked charity.

When Abraham Lincoln and others claim they are speaking for and in behalf of God, then you can compare them to BY, otherwise there is just no comparison, in my opinion.

Claiming to be the mouthpiece for Jesus Christ, speaking as if he was the voice of Jesus Christ himself, claiming divine revelation puts BY in his own catagory, (well, along with all the others who claim they are speaking for God).

Unless BY really WAS speaking for Jesus and Jesus was pleased with his racist teachings, according to GBH BY was not acting as a disciple of Jesus Christ when teaching these racist ideas.

[_Daniel Peterson]

1.

If poor antishock8's posts to and about me don't reflect hatred, it's difficult to imagine what kind of post would.

2.

Truth be told, I'm not sure that I see a whole lot more wisdom regarding life in general, as opposed to specific technical issues of mental and emotional dysfunction, coming from professional "state-certified" counselors than I do from experienced and reflective people generally.

I'm not convinced that more wisdom for living is to be found in cutting-edge social science or social work journals than in Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Hugo, Chaucer, Goethe, Dante, and/or Yahya b. ‘Adi. (There is also, as millions of people have believed over the past two or three millennia, a great deal of wisdom to be found in the scriptures. But, knowing the extreme sensitivity here on such matters, i won't mention that fact.)