Obama destroying the economy

[_cinepro]

Obama, Geithner Get Low Grades from Economists

Some think the stimulus was too much, others not enough...

[_dartagnan]

When asked about the War in Iraq, I guess Republicans can start using the same logic.

"Doing something was better than nothing."

There is nothing economically smart or genius about what Obama is doing. The excitment these democrats have about spending so much money on their local pork projects, tells me their motive is something different. Are they really trying to fix the economy, or just their own interests? Do they just figure the economy is going to hell in a handbasket anyway, so might as well rack up the bill while they are getting to spend it and assum Bush will take the blame anyway? This is the sense I'm getting.

Anyone can spend money they don't have. I know many family members who do this, and the results aren't encouraging. I mean really, is this what his "plan" amounts to? Whatever happened to this notion that Obama's administration would involved highly educated people who provide educated answers to tough problems? What are we getting? A philosophy that says, "Just spend a lot of money we don't have and hope it triggers a positive snowball effect somewhere in the economy"?

[_Gadianton]

A philosophy that says, "Just spend a s*** of money we don't have and hope it triggers a positive snowball effect somewhere in the economy"?

Obviously, if you can predict it, I'm in. I don't think officials should have that as a philosophy, I just think that's what it boils down to.

If it's that easy though, why not in relatively good times, spend money in key places based on calculations by republicans who believe in God, and then make the good economy great? Why in bad, terrible times, does it become obvious to everyone who feels passionate about politics what has to be done?

I'm not a fan of deficit spending at all. The times when it seems to have worked, i don't think it was clearly predictable in advance how it would work.

I'm not happy about it, I've lost hundreds of thousands (on paper at least).

[_Jason Bourne]

Hello.... Obama has been in office for 45 days.



I mean seriously, who in the world thinks anyone can turn this economy (that was destroyed by Bush over many years), around in a matter of weeks. No one. It took eight years to get us to this point, it is not going to turn around in a month or two, or even a year or two for that matter.

Just sayin...

As noted before. Bush did not single handedly destroy the economy. You keep saying this. It demonstrates naïvété as far as an understanding of economics.

Actually the economy did quite well for 6 years of Bush in spite of 9/11.

Even so, some of his policies may have contributed to our current situation. Policies of congress did as well. Policies of the Federal Reserve Board and presidents and congress over the past 30 years have as well.

And you know who else is to blame? You and me and every other US citizen who over spends, had too much debt and borrowed phantom equity in their homes.

Economies are complex. Recessions are a natural process of a free market. However, bad policies can make a minor recession worse.

We will see if Obama's policies are successful or not.

[Guest]

As noted before. Bush did not single handedly destroy the economy. You keep saying this. It demonstrates naïveté as far as an understanding of economics.

Actually the economy did quite well for 6 years of Bush in spite of 9/11.

While I agree with your sentiment, I don't think we can say "the economy did quite well" after 9/11. The bubble economy after 2001 was kept inflated by artificially low interest rates and lax lending standards. It was all make believe. But I don't totally blame bush. The congress, the Fed and the entire financial system (with few exceptions) collaborated in the mess.

Even so, some of his policies may have contributed to our current situation. Policies of congress did as well. Policies of the Federal Reserve Board and presidents and congress over the past 30 years have as well.

I agree.

And you know who else is to blame? You and me and every other US citizen who over spends, had too much debt and borrowed phantom equity in their homes.

Sorry. I didn't over spend, I have no debt, and I waited to buy a home until prices sink to a reasonable level (still renting, but close to buying). And I saved money. So I don't accept any of the blame, thank you very much.

Economies are complex. Recessions are a natural process of a free market. However, bad policies can make a minor recession worse.

We will see if Obama's policies are successful or not.

My frustration is that Obama doesn't even seem to be trying. The stimulus bill was an absolute joke when it comes to the economy. He really seems to be using our financial crisis to spend money on things that won't help the economy.

[_Jason Bourne]

I'm not going to pretend to be an economist (smile) but I do read The Economist and listen to well respected economists opine on the topic and is seems to me most think Obama's plan was not aggressive enough.

Uh....noooooo... That would be some but not most.

I'm not sure what all those Obama haters think should have been done but to let the market take care of itself was NOT the answer, unless of course they wanted to see children and the elderly starving on the streets and no, I am not exaggerating. Several economists I have listened to clearly believe Obama's plan has at least saved us from entering a more devastating situation than the one that occurred during the last depression.

Could be but Obama's plan in barely started. Some argue what Bush did last fall saved the financial markets. Remember he an Paulson pushed through TARP. And does anyone recall the stimulus checks in 2008? Those were more than the measly $800 per couple that Obama just gave as a FICA tax credit.

And, this situation was a long time in coming. It is not about what has happened in the last few weeks or few months, it has been brewing for a decade. I recall five years ago speaking to a economist who was already concerned and predicted a free fall within a few years. Lots of experts have been concerned about the state of the economy for years, (including my DH and he was a republican).

Yes I agree. Thus to pin it all on Bush is incorrect.

Again, it is going to take several years to pick up the pieces of Bush's legacy.

There you go again.

One other little point, in terms of tax rebates and spending freezes... my DH works for an international consulting firm and I know first hand (without any spin) of some of the research they are doing regarding world wide trends and trends in the United States. The experts who are paid to help companies succeed do not care about politics they care about a global economy and what is going to actually work. We are in a situation unlike any we have seen in recent history and giving people extra money to spend is NOT going to help, people are saving NOT spending. (This is no secret)

That is right and Obama's plan is SPENDING, not savings and he said this himself.

The research is overwhelmingly clear on this. Tax rebates and spending freezes are not the answer, in spite of what Rush & Co. may think.

TD, Rush and Co think that savings is the better way, not spending. They are for tax incentives that will stimulate investment in business which will turn on the economic engine.

Now, I am not saying I like everything that is going on, nor do I agree with Obama 100% (And of course I am not thrilled with what is happening on Wall street), but I think he is on the right track for the immediate and long term needs of our country, at least according to most economic experts.

Not most. Not most by a long shot. Some yes. But the reality is that there are a WHOLE bunch of opinions. For every one for what Obama is doing there is another who disagrees.

Again, as bad as it may be right now, to implement some of the plans right wing extremists suggest would be to cause a long, LONG term depression unlike anything our country has seen

And what specifically are the plans that right wing extremists promote that would lead to a depression?

Virtually every expert I know or have read believes it will take at least a year to turn things around, four or five years to heal. Not bad considering it took ten years to get us to this point.

I agree it will take some time.

[_Jason Bourne]

Sorry. I didn't over spend, I have no debt, and I waited to buy a home until prices sink to a reasonable level (still renting, but close to buying). And I saved money. So I don't accept any of the blame, thank you very much.

Ok

You get a pass on this one.

[_asbestosman]

Sorry. I didn't over spend, I have no debt, and I waited to buy a home until prices sink to a reasonable level (still renting, but close to buying). And I saved money. So I don't accept any of the blame, thank you very much.

I didn't wait for buying a home, but I did all the rest and I actually am able to pay for my inflated home price. The only debt I have is in my first mortgage which I will inevtably pay (unless both me and my wife lose our jobs and cannot find something within about a year). So I too don't accept any of the blame.

A part of me is selfishly hoping for significant inflation so I can pay off my inflated home mortgague with inflated dollars, but then inflation will hurt us in other ways.

[_truth dancer]

TD, Rush and Co think that savings is the better way, not spending. They are for tax incentives that will stimulate investment in business which will turn on the economic engine.

Yes, I am aware of this and this is the problem.

NO ONE IS SPENDING. Even a large incentive is not going to get people out spending. The research is EXTREMELY clear on this. People are saving and paying down debt, not spending. This trend is going to remain for some time to come.

Now, I am one who is all about savings, being debt free, and living within ones means. Of course this is the better way for most of us to live but right now, we have got to get people working, while preparing for a future that is coming upon us while we have been virtually stagnant for the past decade. This is not a simple problem and will not get better without a very elaborate remedy.

~td~

[_Jason Bourne]

Yes, I am aware of this and this is the problem.

Why?

NO ONE IS SPENDING.

Perhaps you misspoke but you did attribute something to the conservatives you do not seem to like that they did not say.

Even a large incentive is not going to get people out spending. The research is EXTREMELY clear on this. People are saving and paying down debt, not spending. This trend is going to remain for some time to com

Oh I think there is some spending but not to the level it was. And long term this is a good thing. For years-more than 8 and due to more that the incarnation of evil George Bush-the American people have over spent, borrowed too much and done that by taking out bubble equity in their homes and running up CC debt. So the prosperity we have had is built on credit and credit cannot go on. Getting out of debt and saving will provide funds to invest and loan to productive activities if the government will allow this and let the free market thrive.

Now, I am one who is all about savings, being debt free, and living within ones means. Of course this is the better way for most of us to live but right now, we have got to get people working, while preparing for a future that is coming upon us while we have been virtually stagnant for the past decade. This is not a simple problem and will not get better without a very elaborate remedy.

Perhaps. But perhaps we need to go through some pain to move the a stronger economy as well.