Oh the hypocrisy of Provo professors!!!!

[_TAK]

Jason
You are not even being honest in your description of what is entailed.

Explain it the way it is.. You believe that God is constrained in who he allows in to his highest rewards by allowing only those people who have participated in certain rituals, know certain signs and taken oaths of loyalty. That by faithful Mormons, pretending to be the dead people in the temples and going through all the rituals, Gods requirements have been satisfied. That is what Temple work is all about.

[_Analytics]

If Mormons flatly believed that "Decent, civil people respect strong religious sensibilities.", then they’d stop both missionary work and work for the dead. The fact that they don’t proves that decent, civil people don’t always respect strong religious sensibilities.

I don't share the notion, at all, that attempting to persuade others of one's position -- in religion or in any other regard -- is an expression of disrespect.

Of course you don’t—that’s why I’m using this as an example. My point is to assert that some people out there really do have this particular religious sensibility. That being the case, if decent, civil people really respect strong religious sensibilities," then to the extent Mormons are decent, civil people, they’d respect this sensibility of others and stop proselytizing.

[_Yoda]

Jason
You are not even being honest in your description of what is entailed.

Explain it the way it is.. You believe that God is constrained in who he allows in to his highest rewards by allowing only those people who have participated in certain rituals, know certain signs and taken oaths of loyalty. That by faithful Mormons, pretending to be the dead people in the temples and going through all the rituals, Gods requirements have been satisfied. That is what Temple work is all about.

Temple work should be about securing the salvation of your own family.

If everyone who was a faithful member would simply "mind their own knitting" and do geneology work, then nobody would have to worry about offending someone else.

Do temple work for your own family and be done with it.

[_antishock8]

I just asked a co-worker if he would be pissed to find out Scientologists were baptizing his dead mother into their cult. He said, "Of course I'd be angry. It's disrespectful. I don't disrespect their beliefs... They should leave me and my family alone."

The only ones that don't seem to "get it" are Mormons.

Ok

Perhaps I am wrong on this one.

But why don't you ask about LDS proxy baptism. Avoid your typical use of volatile words such as cult. Explain the idea behinds LDS proxy baptism. You know, that it is performed with the idea that it is only valid if an actual real person who is a spirit and able to make free will choices, accepts it. It does not automatically ake them Mormon.

The people I have talked to about this over the years seem to have no problem with this. Granted, I have not talked to hundreds, but maybe dozens.

In fact my BIL who lost his wife a few years ago was quite fine with this when my wife asked him if it was ok to do proxy work for his wife. And yes, we did feel we should ask him first. He was actually quite touched that we cared enough about her to do this. Of course they were not all that religious in any one faith so that may have been a factor.

Ok. I just stopped another co-worker, and asked him if he found out the Mormons had baptized his dead mother into their religion so she could make it into Heaven if he'd be upset. He looked at me like I was crazy, and said, "“F” them."

So. Take that how you want.

[_harmony]

Temple work should be about securing the salvation of your own family.

If everyone who was a faithful member would simply "mind their own knitting" and do geneology work, then nobody would have to worry about offending someone else.

Do temple work for your own family and be done with it.

One of the weirdest things I've ever seen is when I'd be given a name "Maria". Just a first name, with a birth year, like 1604. How many Marias were born in 1604???

Temple work, like most things driven by the *cough* leaders in SLC is upsidedown. It should only be done by family members for family members. This drive to baptise everyone who ever lived is both a waste of members' time and a waste of resources. But wasting members' resources is what our leaders do best.

[_Jason Bourne]

Jason
You are not even being honest in your description of what is entailed.

Sure I am. Nothing I said was dishonest.

Explain it the way it is.. You believe that God is constrained in who he allows in to his highest rewards by allowing only those people who have participated in certain rituals, know certain signs and taken oaths of loyalty.

I think your portrayal is distorted. Though I have no problem saying that Mormons believe that God's highest rewards go to those who make certain covenants with him and Mormons believe those covenants are made in the LDS temples. Baptism is one of those. Mormons preform ordinance work by proxy for deceased persons but believe that the person they do the work for can accept it or reject it.

That by faithful Mormons, pretending to be the dead people in the temples and going through all the rituals, Gods requirements have been satisfied.

This is not honest. Mormons do not pretend to be the dead people. Do you really not understand the concept of proxy?

That is what Temple work is all about.

Wrong again Tak.

[_Jason Bourne]

Ok. I just stopped another co-worker, and asked him if he found out the Mormons had baptized his dead mother into their religion so she could make it into Heaven if he'd be upset. He looked at me like I was crazy, and said, "f*** them."

Your portrayal still is inaccurate.

[_antishock8]

Ok. So I just got back from lunch. Three guys sitting around me, and more down the table. So, I asked them, "Hey. Question of out left field. If the Mormons wanted to get baptized for your dead mother because they think she can't get into Heaven without someone getting baptized for her... Does that upset you?"

They were like (laughing hysterically), "WTF are you talking about dude?"

And I said, "Mormons believe they have to get baptized for non-believers in order to give them a chance to go to Heaven. That's some of what they do in those Mormon temples. If a Mormon woman got baptized on behalf of your dead mother would that upset you?"

They said (besides more of "wtf" and "that's f**ked up"), "F*** yeah, that's bullsh*t. They do that? They better not do that sh** to my family. F**kers."

I think it's safe to assume there are a lot of people who don't like the idea of Mormons doing anything to or on behalf of their dead relatives. It's very offensive.

[_Jason Bourne]

I think it's safe to assume there are a lot of people who don't like the idea of Mormons doing anything to or on behalf of their dead relatives. It's very offensive.

Fair enough.

By the way, what do you do for work? I here F bombs here and there at my job but nothing like you relate.

[_TAK]

Jason Bourne

Mormons do not pretend to be the dead people. Do you really not understand the concept of proxy?

Typical parsing..
Pretending to be and "representing deceased persons" is equally wacky.