To Mr Scratch

[_antishock8]

Thanks for the precision Mr. Peterson. Forgive me if I don't believe your claim that "not one dime of my salary comes from apologetics".

Where do you work again? I forgot.

http://ispart.BYU.edu/authors/?authorID=1

Oh, yeah.

And what does the MI do?

The Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship exists to:

-Describe and defend the Restoration through highest quality scholarship

-Provide critically edited, primary resources (ancient religious texts) to scholars and lay persons around the world

-Build bridges of understanding and goodwill to Muslim scholars by providing superior editions of primary texts Provide an anchor of faith in a sea of LDS Studies

So. In addition to his ME text initiatives and classes... What does Mr. Peterson produce?

Oh. Yeah.

Journal of Book of Mormon Studies
"Secret Combinations" Revisited
Volume: 1 Issue: 1
Nephi and His Asherah
Volume: 9 Issue: 2



FARMS Review of Books
(Volume 1 Issue 1)
A review of "Two Pahute Indian Legends: Why the Grand Canyon Was Made and The Three Days of Darkness" Written by William Rees Palmer
A Modern Malleus maleficarum (Volume 3 Issue 1)
A review of "The Best Kept Secrets in the Book of Mormon" Written by Loftes Tryk
Afterword (Volume 11 Issue 2)
Authority in the Book of Mosiah (Volume 18 Issue 1)
Chattanooga Cheapshot, or The Gall of Bitterness (Volume 5 Issue 1)
A review of "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Mormonism" Written by John Ankerberg and John Weldon
Christ-Bearer (Volume 8 Issue 1)
A review of "Christopher Columbus: A Latter-day Saint Perspective" Written by Arnold K. Garr
Constancy amid Change (Volume 8 Issue 2)
A review of "Behind the Mask of Mormonism" Written by John Ankerberg and John Weldon
David Whitmer Interviews: A Restoration Witness (Volume 5 Issue 1)
A review of "David Whitmer Interviews: A Restoration Witness" Written by Lyndon W. Cook
Decker's Complete Handbook on Mormonism (Volume 7 Issue 2)
A review of "Decker's Complete Handbook on Mormonism" Written by Ed Decker
Editor's Introduction (Volume 3 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction (Volume 6 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction: (Volume 16 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction: (Volume 19 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction: "The Worst Herricy Man Can Preach" (Volume 12 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction: "What Has Athens to Do with Jerusalem?": Apostasy and Restoration in the Big Picture (Volume 12 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction: American Apocrypha? (Volume 13 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction: By What Measure Shall We Mete? (Volume 2 Issue 1)
A review of "Hodgson's Test"
Editor's Introduction: Doubting the Doubters (Volume 8 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction: Fictionary (Volume 10 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction: Historical Concreteness, or Speculative Abstraction? (Volume 14 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction: In the Land of the Lotus-Eaters (Volume 10 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction: Of "Galileo Events," Hype, and Suppression: Or, Abusing Science and its History (Volume 15 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction: Perceptions and Expectations (Volume 11 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction: QnA (Volume 13 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction: Questions to Legal Answers (Volume 4 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction: Reflections on the Reactions to Rough Stone Rolling and Related Matters (Volume 19 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction: The Review Crosses a Divide of Its Own (Volume 11 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction: Through a Glass, Darkly (Volume 9 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction: Traditions of the Fathers (Volume 9 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction: Triptych (Inspired by Hieronymus Bosch) (Volume 8 Issue 1)
Editor's Introduction—Not So Easily Dismissed: Some Facts for Which Counterexplanations of the Book of Mormon Will Need to Account (Volume 17 Issue 2)
Editor's Introduction—The Witchcraft Paradigm: On Claims to (Volume 18 Issue 2)
Ein Heldenleben? On Thomas Stuart Ferguson as an Elias for Cultural Mormons (Volume 16 Issue 1)
A review of "Quest for the Gold Plates: Thomas Stuart Ferguson's Archaeological Search for the Book of Mormon." Written by Stan Larson
Introduction (Volume 1 Issue 1)
Introduction (Volume 6 Issue 2)
Introduction (Volume 7 Issue 1)
Introduction (Volume 7 Issue 2)
Mormon in the Fiery Furnace Or, Loftes Tryk Goes to Cambridge (Volume 6 Issue 2)
A review of "The Refiner's Fire: The Making of Mormon Cosmology, 1644-1844" Written by John L. Brooke
Mormonism (Volume 8 Issue 1)
A review of "Mormonism" Written by Kurt Van Gorden
Mormonism as a Restoration (Volume 18 Issue 1)
Mormonism: The Prophet, the Book and the Cult. (Volume 2 Issue 1)
A review of "Mormonism: The Prophet, the Book and the Cult." Written by Peter Bartley
On the New World Archaeological Foundation (Volume 16 Issue 1)
A review of "Behind the Mask of Mormonism" Written by John Ankerberg, John Weldon
Prolegomena to the DNA Articles (Volume 15 Issue 2)
A review of "Prolegomena to the DNA Articles"
Reflections on Secular Anti-Mormonism (Volume 17 Issue 2)
Skin Deep (Volume 9 Issue 2)
A review of "Die Mormonen: Sekte oder neue Kirche Jesu Christi?" Written by Rüdiger Hauth
Stories from the Early Saints: Converted by the Book of Mormon (Volume 4 Issue 1)
A review of "Stories from the Early Saints: Converted by the Book of Mormon" Written by Susan Easton Black
Text and Context (Volume 6 Issue 1)
The Book of Mormon: First Nephi, The Doctrinal Foundation. (Volume 1 Issue 1)
A review of "The Book of Mormon: First Nephi, The Doctrinal Foundation." Written by Monte S. Nyman, and Charles D. Tate Jr.
The Evangelical Is Our Brother (Volume 11 Issue 2)
A review of "How Wide the Divide? A Mormon and an Evangelical in Conversation" Written by Craig L. Blomberg and Stephen E. Robinson
The Prophetic Book of Mormon (Volume 2 Issue 1)
A review of "The Prophetic Book of Mormon" Written by Hugh Nibley
What Certain Baptists Think They Know about the Restored Gospel (Volume 10 Issue 1)
A review of "The Mormon Puzzle: Understanding and Witnessing to Latter-day Saints" Written by North American Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention
Yet More Abuse of B. H. Roberts (Volume 9 Issue 1)
A review of "The Disappointment of B. H. Roberts: Five Questions That Forced a Mormon General Authority to Abandon the Book of Mormon" Written by James R. Spencer



Insights
New Book Features Work of Poet, Theologian
New Translation Launches METI's Library of the Christian East Series
Reflections: Cosmic Optimism
Transcripts and Featured Publications
1 Nephi 1–7
Comparing LDS Beliefs with First-Century Christianity
Evidences of the Book of Mormon
On Alma 7:10 and the Birthplace of Jesus Christ
Other Voices from the Dust
The Keystone of Our Religion



Foreign Language
A Pedra Fundamental De Nossa Religião
Evidências Da Veracidade Do Livro De Mórmon (PET-T1)
Evidenze del Libro di Mormon
L'autorité dans le livre de Mosiah
Un érudit étudie les preuves du Livre de Mormon (PET-T1)
UN ERUDITO EXAMINA LAS EVIDENCIAS PARA EL LIBRO DE MORMÓN (PET-T1)



Book Chapters
Astronomy, Papyrus, and Covenant:
And I Saw the Stars -- The Book of Abraham and Ancient Geocentric Astronomy
Book of Mormon Authorship Revisited: The Evidence for Ancient Origins:
Is the Book of Mormon True?: Notes on the Debate
Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon:
Introduction
Not Joseph's, and Not Modern
Mormons, Scripture, and the Ancient World: Studies in Honor of John L. Sorenson:
Nephi and His Asherah: A Note on 1 Nephi 11:8—23
Offenders for a Word:
Introduction
Is Mormonism Christian? An Investigation of Definitions, part 1
Is Mormonism Christian? An Investigation of Definitions, part 2
Is Mormonism Christian? An Investigation of Definitions, part 3
Mormonism as "Cult": The Limits of Lexical Polemics
Reexploring the Book of Mormon:
"Secret Combinations"
The Disciple as Scholar: Essays on Scripture and the Ancient World in Honor of Richard Lloyd Anderson:
The Throne Theophany/Prophetic Call of Muḥammad
Ye Are Gods: Psalm 82 and John 10 as Witnesses to the Divine Nature of Humankind
To All the World: The Book of Mormon Articles from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism:
Economy and Technology
Warfare in the Book of Mormon:
The Gadianton Robbers as Guerrilla Warriors
Notes on "Gadianton Masonry"



BYU Bookstore
Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon (Soft Cover Book)
Offenders for a Word: How Anti-Mormons Play Word Games to Attack the Latter-day Saints (Soft Cover Book)
Revelation, Reason, and Faith: Essays in Honor of Truman G. Madsen (Hard Cover Book)
The Book of Mormon and DNA Research

[_christopher]

Unless Scratch and his minions (e.g., his creepy network of anonymous "informants") are tracking me even more closely than I suspect, ..

Just think of them as nothing more than a "newspaper clipping" service. You seem to have no problem with those types.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I have no problem whatever, Christopher, with clipping things from newspapers. My problem -- and it may just be a personal quirk of mine, since some here seem to endorse such things -- is with anonymous multi-year campaigns of defamation and character assassination.

Forgive me if I don't believe your claim that "not one dime of my salary comes from apologetics".

Which, being interpreted, means "Forgive me if I regard you as a liar."

Which means that it really doesn't matter at all to poor antishock8 what I say.

Which illustrates how pointless it is for me to say anything whatever to poor antishock8.

Where do you work again? I forgot.

http://ispart.BYU.edu/authors/?authorID=1

Oh, yeah.

Yes, poor antishock8 forgot.

Here's where I work:

http://asiane.BYU.edu/arab.php

My office is 3084 JFSB, just around the corner from the office of the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages. If he wishes, he's free to sit in on my senior seminar in Middle Eastern Studies or my seminar on the Arabic Qur’an. Class meeting times and locations are posted to the left of my office door.

So. In addition to his ME text initiatives and classes [and lectures and articles and books]... What does Mr. Peterson produce? [emphasis mine]

Poor antishock8 imagines that I've tried to hide the fact that I speak and write on Mormon topics.

Why he imagines that, I can't imagine.

[_antishock8]

So. In addition to his ME text initiatives and classes [and lectures and articles and books]... What does Mr. Peterson produce? [emphasis mine]

Poor antishock8 imagines that I've tried to hide the fact that I speak and write on Mormon topics.

Why he imagines that, I can't imagine.

No. I don't think the Fat Man hides anything. He just doesn't cop to it. It's clear that some dimes of your salary do, indeed, come from producing, managing, editing, and participating in Mormon apologetics.







liarsliarsliarsliarsliars

[_Daniel Peterson]

LOL. I desperately try to avoid admitting that I speak and write on Mormon topics by giving public lectures on Mormonism, holding publicly announced positions in organizations related to speaking and writing on Mormonism, publishing on Mormonism, posting on Mormonism, announcing the publication of things that I've written or edited on Mormonism, permitting lists to be posted of things I've written on Mormonism, and other such cowardly and deceptive tactics.

Fortunately, poor antishock8, an indefatigable sleuth with a passion for outing sneaks like myself, was able to unmask my pretense by locating, and revealing to the world, this damning secret document, until now hidden deep in the Granite Mountain vaults just outside of Salt Lake City:

http://farms.BYU.edu/authors/?authorID=1

[_Mister Scratch]

Pull your head out already, Professor Drama Queen. Boo hoo! Poor Dan can't admit when he's wrong! What's next: are you going to announce to all of us that you have an upcoming trip, so that you can bail out of the thread, and then turn up later, claiming ignorance? I, for one, have grown very, very sick and tired of your endless pretend ignorance, condescension, arrogance, equivocating, and sophistry. Maybe it's *you* who should retire.

Your obsessive personal hostility is usually a bit better masked than this, Scratch,

Sit down, put your head between your knees, and count to ten.

As much as I'm a fan of your desperate mind-reading acts, I have a question for you: Do you want me to be "personally hostile"? I can do that, if you'd like. Would you like an assemblage of your gossip and the like mailed to the Brethren? Would you like your skinny-l trashtalk photocopied and distributed at the upcoming Claremont conference, and mailed to your Stake President?

Or, instead, are you trying to paint a hostile caricature? You once posted something that expressed palpable, existential terror, in which you stated that you feared for your life and the life of your family. Is that no longer the case? Or, did you decide at some point that taunting other posters is an effective strategy?

Again: my claim is simply this: Dan got paid for apologetics. Whether this was fifty bucks for an article, a hundred bucks for editing, or $20K for being the Chair of FARMS, the fact remains: Dan was paid for apologetics. *That*, and that alone, is my claim. We can get into the particulars if you like, since that seems to be where your beef lies, but, to reiterate, I am not claiming anything beyond the very simple, straightforward, unadorned fact that DCP has gotten paid to do apologetics.

And I've never ever denied that I've occasionally been paid for apologetics -- in some years fifty bucks, in a few exceptionally bounteous years all the way up into the very low three figures.

This is scarcely a big discovery.

You denied that it was a part of your salary, which, it turns out, wasn't true. Deceiving people in this way could jeopardize your Church membership. I'm sure that a display of contrition would go a long ways towards swaying people---myself included---to your favor.

[_antishock8]

Ah. So the Fat Man is saying he does all his MI and Mormon apologia work on his own time, and his own dime (or someone else's dime that isn't related to his salary). Lol. Holy crap. The hubris it takes to believe sensible people would believe his story is pretty funny.

[_Mister Scratch]

OK....the crux of this whole issue of bickering seems to be this. Please, Scratch, correct me if I'm wrong.

Scratch claims that DCP stated that he was NEVER paid for doing apologetics.

No. DCP claimed, in an email exchange with Infymus (and others, I believe), that "not one dime" of his salary went towards apologetics. Instead, it turns out that some $20,000 of his BYU salary was diverted over to his payment as Chair of FARMS. So, he wasn't exactly telling the truth.

He will come in and tell you next that he doesn't think that being Chair of FARMS is actually "apologetic," but I think that's a stretch. Go ahead and read the FARMS mission statement and tell me what you think. Sure, some of the stuff that FARMS does isn't "Mopologetic" on the surface (the Dead Sea Scrolls project, for example), but this stuff is usually meant to "lead in" to apologetics in some way. Again: the Dead Sea Scrolls were still "re-framed" for a Mormon audience, with the goal being to help defend LDS claims.

DCP claims that he never said that. DCP claims that what he said is that he was never paid what could be considered a substantial amount of money from his apologetic work...that he HAS, in fact, not only admitted to being paid, but never denied being paid.

So which is it?

Personally, I consider $20,000 to be pretty substantial. (Again: he's going to tell you that that money didn't go towards "apologetics," but he's just equivocating yet again.)

Let me boil it down for you like this, Liz:

---FARMS is an apologetic organization. Apologetics is *fundamental* to what it does.
---FARMS does some projects, like METI, which do not, on the surface, seem obviously "apologetic," but which (ala the Dead Sea Scrolls) nonetheless are meant to help bolster FARMS's essentially Mopologetic mission.
---DCP was paid thousands of dollars during various years to be Chair of FARMS.

So let me ask you: If he was paid these sums to be Chair of FARMS, and taking FARMS's mission statement into consideration, do you think he was paid a "substantial amount" for apologetics?

And again: he'll just try to deny that the work he did was "apologetic." This reminds me of the defenses you hear from mafia bosses: "Yeah, I might have been head of the Family, but I didn't commit any crimes!"

You know what I mean? I really hope this clears this up for you, and that you see where I and others have been coming from. I'm genuinely interested to hear your take on this.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Scratch, you know I think you're crazy. Go ahead and send anything you want to my stake president. Distribute anything you like at the Claremont conference. (That'll be an amusing spectacle.) Try to get me excommunicated by sharing your baseless lunatic speculations about my salary with Church leaders.

Really.

[_The Nehor]

As much as I'm a fan of your desperate mind-reading acts, I have a question for you: Do you want me to be "personally hostile"? I can do that, if you'd like. Would you like an assemblage of your gossip and the like mailed to the Brethren? Would you like your skinny-l trashtalk photocopied and distributed at the upcoming Claremont conference, and mailed to your Stake President?

Please do this Scratch. I think it would be hilarious. Stake Presidents and Apostles need a good laugh too.