The Nehor wrote:If sin did not drive them out then it was a sin to leave.
This pretty much sums up Mormonism. Rejecting the teachings of the Mormon church is a sin. There are three types of people in this world. Faithful Mormons, potential converts, and sinners.
Well, actually, everyone is a sinner no matter what other categories you may fall into. The Book of Mormon and Bible are both clear on this. Saying someone sinned is not some horrible accusation. I sin every day. I think most everyone does.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
2008: “Members of the Church continue to place telephone calls and write letters to Church headquarters about doctrinal issues and personal matters. The ability of General Authorities to respond personally to these inquiries presents an almost insurmountable task and makes it difficult for the Brethren to fulfill the duties for which they alone are responsible.
"Don't ask me. I'm only the Prophet, Seer and Revelator."
How long is it since any of the fifteen made a substantial public pronouncement on a distinctively LDS doctrinal issue on which there was genuine uncertainty before they spoke (apart from not having more than one piercing, families being a generally good thing, and so on)?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
The Nehor wrote:Well, actually, everyone is a sinner no matter what other categories you may fall into. The Book of Mormon and Bible are both clear on this. Saying someone sinned is not some horrible accusation. I sin every day. I think most everyone does.
So what you're saying is sinning has nothing to do with leaving the church. I would agree with that.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
The Nehor wrote:Well, actually, everyone is a sinner no matter what other categories you may fall into. The Book of Mormon and Bible are both clear on this. Saying someone sinned is not some horrible accusation. I sin every day. I think most everyone does.
So what you're saying is sinning has nothing to do with leaving the church. I would agree with that.
I didn't say that. It's a sin to leave and in my experience leaving is usually preceded by an increase in sinning.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
2008: “Members of the Church continue to place telephone calls and write letters to Church headquarters about doctrinal issues and personal matters. The ability of General Authorities to respond personally to these inquiries presents an almost insurmountable task and makes it difficult for the Brethren to fulfill the duties for which they alone are responsible.
"Don't ask me. I'm only the Prophet, Seer and Revelator."
How long is it since any of the fifteen made a substantial public pronouncement on a distinctively LDS doctrinal issue on which there was genuine uncertainty before they spoke (apart from not having more than one piercing, families being a generally good thing, and so on)?
Last fireside I went to here when Elder Scott was in town, last year I think. There are other avenues to get that kind of information but the apostates that make up the bulk of this board don't have access to it anymore.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
DarkHelmet wrote: So what you're saying is sinning has nothing to do with leaving the church. I would agree with that.
I didn't say that. It's a sin to leave and in my experience leaving is usually preceded by an increase in sinning.
You can only speak to your experience with sinning and leaving the LDS Church. While it is probably true that some leave due to "sin" (as defined by the LDS Church), others leave because they realize the LDS Church is false. Besides which, we know there are plenty of sinners, including those guilty of serious sins, who remain in the LDS Church.
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)
Calculus Crusader wrote:You can only speak to your experience with sinning and leaving the LDS Church. While it is probably true that some leave due to "sin" (as defined by the LDS Church), others leave because they realize the LDS Church is false. Besides which, we know there are plenty of sinners, including those guilty of serious sins, who remain in the LDS Church.
Well, since it isn't false something went wrong somewhere. Yes, there are plenty of sinners who remain in the LDS faith. I'm one of them. I'm going to stay here until I'm cleansed from all sin....forever. Looking forward to that.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
2008: “Members of the Church continue to place telephone calls and write letters to Church headquarters about doctrinal issues and personal matters. The ability of General Authorities to respond personally to these inquiries presents an almost insurmountable task and makes it difficult for the Brethren to fulfill the duties for which they alone are responsible.
"Don't ask me. I'm only the Prophet, Seer and Revelator."
How long is it since any of the fifteen made a substantial public pronouncement on a distinctively LDS doctrinal issue on which there was genuine uncertainty before they spoke (apart from not having more than one piercing, families being a generally good thing, and so on)?
The Nehor wrote:Last fireside I went to here when Elder Scott was in town, last year I think. There are other avenues to get that kind of information but the apostates that make up the bulk of this board don't have access to it anymore.
And what pronouncement did Elder Scott make on a distinctively LDS doctrinal issue on which there was genuine uncertainty before he spoke?
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Chap wrote:And what pronouncement did Elder Scott make on a distinctively LDS doctrinal issue on which there was genuine uncertainty before he spoke?
Can't tell you, we've been asked not to publish our notes on what Apostles say. Guess it was just for this area due to our exceeding righteousness.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Chap wrote:And what pronouncement did Elder Scott make on a distinctively LDS doctrinal issue on which there was genuine uncertainty before he spoke?
Can't tell you, we've been asked not to publish our notes on what Apostles say. Guess it was just for this area due to our exceeding righteousness.
No doubt we are all duly impressed.
So now prophets only prophecy, see and revelate for members of the CoJCoLDS. And those members are subject to a gagging clause ...
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
