Former Oklahoma City Temple President Apostatized

[_cinepro]

Their story is sad and interesting, because I think LDS sometimes have a mental image of the Temple President as someone who has been given special knowledge.

Ultimately, one of the most damaging things for an LDS to learn (or think they've learned) is that the GA's and other leaders don't "know" anymore than anyone else. They don't have the answers either. And how much time and effort must the GA's spend trying to convince us that they do have special knowledge, but just can't share it with us (and please don't write to them in the meantime...)?

[_The Nehor]

No doubt we are all duly impressed.

I hope not. That would be pathetic.

So now prophets only prophecy, see and revelate for members of the CoJCoLDS.

Well, I don't think they do it for the entertainment of others who have a purely academic interest, particularly when that interest is negative.

And those members are subject to a gagging clause ...

Well, the main point of prophetic counsel is to follow it, not to pass it around some kind of gossip chain. Have you read the latest conference Ensign yet? It has a lot of counsel in it. Once you follow that, God has a way of moving on to other things.

[_The Nehor]

Their story is sad and interesting, because I think LDS sometimes have a mental image of the Temple President as someone who has been given special knowledge.

Ultimately, one of the most damaging things for an LDS to learn (or think they've learned) is that the GA's and other leaders don't "know" anymore than anyone else. They don't have the answers either. And how much time and effort must the GA's spend trying to convince us that they do have special knowledge, but just can't share it with us (and please don't write to them in the meantime...)?

I thought that for a while. Then I went out with the Temple President's daughter.

When do the GA's spend time trying to convince us that they have some special knowledge? They have what they need to be Apostles. Much of the rest of the 'mystique' is created by overzealous members who've never spoken with them.

[_Chap]

Their story is sad and interesting, because I think LDS sometimes have a mental image of the Temple President as someone who has been given special knowledge.

Ultimately, one of the most damaging things for an LDS to learn (or think they've learned) is that the GA's and other leaders don't "know" anymore than anyone else. They don't have the answers either. And how much time and effort must the GA's spend trying to convince us that they do have special knowledge, but just can't share it with us (and please don't write to them in the meantime...)?

cinepro has said it for me.

Case rests.

[_The Nehor]

Their story is sad and interesting, because I think LDS sometimes have a mental image of the Temple President as someone who has been given special knowledge.

Ultimately, one of the most damaging things for an LDS to learn (or think they've learned) is that the GA's and other leaders don't "know" anymore than anyone else. They don't have the answers either. And how much time and effort must the GA's spend trying to convince us that they do have special knowledge, but just can't share it with us (and please don't write to them in the meantime...)?

cinepro has said it for me.

Case rests.

Well, let's wait for the mass exodus to follow them out. With that kind of influence there's no telling where this could end.

[_Jason Bourne]

I'd like to ask again - on the basis that the account given is true, why didn't any of the Brethren answer Chesney's plea for help with his doctrinal problems?
t.

I just don't get it. Fifteen of them, and nobody can spare the time to reply to a letter from a doubting temple president? What are they afraid might happen if they did reply?

[Edited for typo]

I agree this does seem odd. Yes the top leaders encourage and even direct members to not write them but see local leaders for questions. But it would seems a temple president might get their attention. I should note though the narrative says they sent Elder Didier, who is a member of the 1st Quorum of the Seventy so they did send someone more that a local leader. Did Didier really say to just ignore his issues? It would be nice to hear that first hand.

[_Chap]

I'd like to ask again - on the basis that the account given is true, why didn't any of the Brethren answer Chesney's plea for help with his doctrinal problems?
t.

I just don't get it. Fifteen of them, and nobody can spare the time to reply to a letter from a doubting temple president? What are they afraid might happen if they did reply?

[Edited for typo]

I agree this does seem odd. Yes the top leaders encourage and even direct members to not write them but see local leaders for questions. But it would seems a temple president might get their attention. I should note though the narrative says they sent Elder Didier, who is a member of the 1st Quorum of the Seventy so they did send someone more that a local leader. Did Didier really say to just ignore his issues? It would be nice to hear that first hand.

Thanks to JB for this very reasonable response, a welcome relief after the exchange just concluded.

There seems to be quite a long tradition of non-substantive Brethren response to LDS elite who express doubts. So far as I recall, their answer to B.H. Roberts' careful exposé of problems with the Book of Mormon was to stand up and weepingly bear their testimonies one after the other.

Which seems somehow to miss the point.

[_Runtu]

I agree this does seem odd. Yes the top leaders encourage and even direct members to not write them but see local leaders for questions. But it would seems a temple president might get their attention. I should note though the narrative says they sent Elder Didier, who is a member of the 1st Quorum of the Seventy so they did send someone more that a local leader. Did Didier really say to just ignore his issues? It would be nice to hear that first hand.

They did indeed send Didier, who was unable to resolve Brother Chesney's concerns, despite Brother Chesney's strong desire to have them resolved. harmony was puzzled as to why he was so despondent and sick at leaving; it was because he really wanted to make it work, but ultimately, Didier's counsel to ignore the problems wasn't good enough. And also Chesney's children were active members and strongly opposed his leaving the church.

(Yes, I do have inside information, and, no, I'm not going to reveal my source. Feel free to consider me a lying apostate as you wish.)

[_Jason Bourne]

You can only speak to your experience with sinning and leaving the LDS Church. While it is probably true that some leave due to "sin" (as defined by the LDS Church), others leave because they realize the LDS Church is false. Besides which, we know there are plenty of sinners, including those guilty of serious sins, who remain in the LDS Church.

So called wisdom from one of the drive by Christians. So CC does the same go for one who leaves your flavor of Christianity, or leaves it all together? Why did Bart Ehrman abandon Christianity? I assume you know who he is. Did he leave because he realized it is false?

[_Runtu]

So called wisdom from one of the drive by Christians. So CC does the same go for one who leaves your flavor of Christianity, or leaves it all together? Why did Bart Ehrman abandon Christianity? I assume you know who he is. Did he leave because he realized it is false?

I suspect that people leave the church for as many varied reasons as people join the church or stay with the church. I left because I honestly believed (and still do believe) that the church is not what it claims to be. Have I committed sins? Sure. Was my leaving the church a result of sin? I don't think so, but heaven knows I've had enough people who don't know me insist that it was.

Church members seem to assign nefarious reasons for our apostasy because it's easier to think of us as types rather than as real people with real thoughts and beliefs, hopes, and faith.

Back in Texas, I used to hang out with some very religious friends of other faiths, and we would share our beliefs over lunch regularly. It was a very uplifting experience. All were shocked when I told them I had left the LDS church. "Of all the people I would have imagined would leave the Mormon church, it would not have been you," one friend said, "but, I know you, and I know you would not have made this decision lightly or without good reason."

I contrast this response with that of a "friend" from the MAD board, who rather than ask me about my leaving the church, began circulating emails suggesting I was a sexual predator, mentally unstable, and perhaps dangerous; this person helpfully suggested that people avoid talking to me altogether and wondered if the police should be involved.

But obviously, my experience is mine alone. I just find it interesting how quickly people are to assign reasons that have no validity. Again, I think it's a defense mechanism.

In the end, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. We answer for our own choices, our own beliefs. I couldn't care less if Nehor and bc and the rest of them consign me to outer darkness forever because of some supposed "real" reason I left the church.