Proof that the Church listens

[_cinepro]

It was discussed at MA&D in these two threads:

Zina Diana Huntington

and

That Lying Church, Redux

As I noted in the second thread, there is still one more claim on the Church website that need to be corrected:

After Henry deserted Zina and the two little boys, Zebulon and Chariton, she married Brigham Young and crossed the plains to the Salt Lake Valley with his family. A few years later a daughter, Zina Presendia Young, was born.

Angel Of Mercy (published in the Friend!)

Just think, if Emma had died before Joseph, the Church might not be so reluctant to acknowledge at least one of his other wives.

(This Ensign article also make mention of her temporal marriage to BY, but not her sealing to Joseph Smith).

[_TAK]

TAK, did you miss my post?

Doup! Excellent point by the way..



.

[_Jason Bourne]

It's not bizzare at all. In fact, it makes perfect sense. There is a process of time which results in Zina no longer considers herself married to Henry. The answer to why there is no record of divorce is quite reasonable:

Only to those who are trying to reconcile behavior they would find reprehensible if it were anyone other than people they think are prophets of God.

It looks more like critics of the Church making a mountain out of a molehill to me.

well there is a surprise. But let's put a different spin on it. If this were another sect and the leader of said sect who was married to another woman and indeed even women had another woman married to him that was already married what would you think? further, when he dies his successor has this woman married to him for this life and the next and oh by the way, her first husband, the one before the fellow who just got shot, is still alive and married to her. And of all the bazaar twists, he stands there and watches this second marriage of his wife to someone else. Further, this leader later sends away the very first hubby and tells him that he is the heir of all that was the first leader. So wifey is his. First hubby needs to go find someone else. Oh and that includes the kids he fathered by his wife. So hubby dutilfully goes off on mission and wifey then moves in with new leader, who oh by the way, has a dozen or so wives already.

But this is making a mountain out of a molehill?? Anyone else and you would find the behavior abhorrent. But because you think this was all of God, even though it seems pretty ungodly, you are quite fine with it.

by the way, your link didn't work.

Zina and Her Men

[/quote]

DAMN!! You gotta love the title to that apologetic piece. Zina and her Men. Almost sounds like the title of a porn flick.

[_bcspace]

But how does all this make it correct to say that Zina was widowed?

Because Joseph Smith died.

This is interesting...

"We are told that the Prophet Joseph requested the Quorum to marry and take care of his widows," Zina's granddaughter would write, "and in some cases Joseph Smith's plural wives were given their choice of the Twelve as their husbands for time, to give them the full honor and protection of marriage with an apostle."26

well there is a surprise. But let's put a different spin on it. If this were another sect and the leader of said sect who was married to another woman and indeed even women had another woman married to him that was already married what would you think?

I might want to know more about what their thought process was before I passed judgement.

But this is making a mountain out of a molehill??

Most assuredly.

But because you think this was all of God, even though it seems pretty ungodly, you are quite fine with it.

Even you used the term "seems".

DAMN!! You gotta love the title to that apologetic piece. Zina and her Men. Almost sounds like the title of a porn flick.

Almost sounds like you want to be one of the co-stars.....

But that leads us back to what likely underlies the revulsion. The critics are so wrapped up in sex and their own sexual hang ups that I think it's secret jealousy that one most often finds after peeling back some layers.

[_rcrocket]

well there is a surprise. But let's put a different spin on it. If this were another sect and the leader of said sect who was married to another woman and indeed even women had another woman married to him that was already married what would you think? further, when he dies his successor has this woman married to him for this life and the next and oh by the way, her first husband, the one before the fellow who just got shot, is still alive and married to her. And of all the bazaar twists, he stands there and watches this second marriage of his wife to someone else. Further, this leader later sends away the very first hubby and tells him that he is the heir of all that was the first leader. So wifey is his. First hubby needs to go find someone else. Oh and that includes the kids he fathered by his wife. So hubby dutilfully goes off on mission and wifey then moves in with new leader, who oh by the way, has a dozen or so wives already.

I suppose that would be the factual scenario if you accepted the way Compton paints it hook, line and sinker. But, having looked at this closely, the facts are not likely yours. Somewhere in this set of facts, at probably two different places, was church discipline for unchristian conduct; possibly divorce and wife abandonment.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

But how does all this make it correct to say that Zina was widowed?

Because Joseph Smith died.

Huh? From the OP:

The offending sentence, "Widowed by her first husband, she raised two sons from that marriage, one daughter from her later marriage to Brigham Young, and four of Brigham Young’s other children” has been struck.

So according to you: Widowed by Joseph Smith [her first husband], Zina raised two sons from that marriage [with Joseph Smith] ... then you post a bunch of reasons why her divorce from Henry wouldn't have been recorded ...

The "offending sentence" was simply untrue. She wasn't widowed by her first husband. Not divorced. Not deserted. Why can't you just admit a few confirmed facts?

This is interesting...

"We are told that the Prophet Joseph requested the Quorum to marry and take care of his widows," Zina's granddaughter would write, "and in some cases Joseph Smith's plural wives were given their choice of the Twelve as their husbands for time, to give them the full honor and protection of marriage with an apostle."26

Interesting, yes. Redeeming, no.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

well there is a surprise. But let's put a different spin on it. If this were another sect and the leader of said sect who was married to another woman and indeed even women had another woman married to him that was already married what would you think? further, when he dies his successor has this woman married to him for this life and the next and oh by the way, her first husband, the one before the fellow who just got shot, is still alive and married to her. And of all the bazaar twists, he stands there and watches this second marriage of his wife to someone else. Further, this leader later sends away the very first hubby and tells him that he is the heir of all that was the first leader. So wifey is his. First hubby needs to go find someone else. Oh and that includes the kids he fathered by his wife. So hubby dutilfully goes off on mission and wifey then moves in with new leader, who oh by the way, has a dozen or so wives already.

I suppose that would be the factual scenario if you accepted the way Compton paints it hook, line and sinker. But, having looked at this closely, the facts are not likely yours. Somewhere in this set of facts, at probably two different places, was church discipline for unchristian conduct; possibly divorce and wife abandonment.

Actually, Compton does refer to disciplinary action against Henry (not enough information available to know what it was all about, just as likely to be cooked up charges to get him out of the way as actual unchristian conduct), Henry's subsequent marriage, etc. Looked at objectively, these were dysfunctional people making a big mess of their relationships. Compton is subjective in that he finds a lot of sympathy for the wives. Fine, they obviously had many fine qualities, but the facts are the facts and they don't make the church or any of the participants look all that good and attempts to justify these events look pretty lame.

[_John Larsen]

well there is a surprise. But let's put a different spin on it. If this were another sect and the leader of said sect who was married to another woman and indeed even women had another woman married to him that was already married what would you think? further, when he dies his successor has this woman married to him for this life and the next and oh by the way, her first husband, the one before the fellow who just got shot, is still alive and married to her. And of all the bazaar twists, he stands there and watches this second marriage of his wife to someone else. Further, this leader later sends away the very first hubby and tells him that he is the heir of all that was the first leader. So wifey is his. First hubby needs to go find someone else. Oh and that includes the kids he fathered by his wife. So hubby dutilfully goes off on mission and wifey then moves in with new leader, who oh by the way, has a dozen or so wives already.

I suppose that would be the factual scenario if you accepted the way Compton paints it hook, line and sinker. But, having looked at this closely, the facts are not likely yours. Somewhere in this set of facts, at probably two different places, was church discipline for unchristian conduct; possibly divorce and wife abandonment.

Okay, which facts of yours disagree with Compton's? Where is your proof of divorce and wife abandonment? Once you can just make up non-existent evidence to support your world view, you are off the reservation my friend.

I think it is the pinnacle of arrogance to criticize a view based on solid evidence in favor of a theory based solely on non-existent evidence that you think should be there.

[_Jason Bourne]

But how does all this make it correct to say that Zina was widowed?

Because Joseph Smith died.

This is interesting...

But her husband, her first husband, to whom she was still married, was alive and well, and for Bob Crockett, still in good standing when Brigham married Zina in the Nauvoo temple.

"We are told that the Prophet Joseph requested the Quorum to marry and take care of his widows," Zina's granddaughter would write, "and in some cases Joseph Smith's plural wives were given their choice of the Twelve as their husbands for time, to give them the full honor and protection of marriage with an apostle."26

Why did Zina need an apostle when she had still faithful Henry till Brigham claimed her?

well there is a surprise. But let's put a different spin on it. If this were another sect and the leader of said sect who was married to another woman and indeed even women had another woman married to him that was already married what would you think?

I might want to know more about what their thought process was before I passed judgement.

Perhaps but I highly doubt it.

But this is making a mountain out of a molehill??

Most assuredly.

Of course. Because if you admit that it was more than this you may be faced with some problems about the way the prophets behaved.

But because you think this was all of God, even though it seems pretty ungodly, you are quite fine with it.

Even you used the term "seems".

Nit picking. I will change it. It IS ungodly.

DAMN!! You gotta love the title to that apologetic piece. Zina and her Men. Almost sounds like the title of a porn flick.

Almost sounds like you want to be one of the co-stars.....

Hardly.

But that leads us back to what likely underlies the revulsion. The critics are so wrapped up in sex and their own sexual hang ups that I think it's secret jealousy that one most often finds after peeling back some layers.

Oh and there you have it. Normal people who find bizarre behavior in all this are really the ones with this issues. RIIIIIGHT! Of course most who defend this never would if they did not have their testimony at risk.

[_Jason Bourne]

well there is a surprise. But let's put a different spin on it. If this were another sect and the leader of said sect who was married to another woman and indeed even women had another woman married to him that was already married what would you think? further, when he dies his successor has this woman married to him for this life and the next and oh by the way, her first husband, the one before the fellow who just got shot, is still alive and married to her. And of all the bazaar twists, he stands there and watches this second marriage of his wife to someone else. Further, this leader later sends away the very first hubby and tells him that he is the heir of all that was the first leader. So wifey is his. First hubby needs to go find someone else. Oh and that includes the kids he fathered by his wife. So hubby dutilfully goes off on mission and wifey then moves in with new leader, who oh by the way, has a dozen or so wives already.

I suppose that would be the factual scenario if you accepted the way Compton paints it hook, line and sinker. But, having looked at this closely, the facts are not likely yours. Somewhere in this set of facts, at probably two different places, was church discipline for unchristian conduct; possibly divorce and wife abandonment.

Well Bob, Henry was still a faithful member when Joseph Smith married Zina. And there is no evidence of marital strife at that time.

Would you find that first marriage strange or odd if it were anyone else but Joseph Smith?

And Henry was still a faithful member when Joseph Smith died and BY stood in for proxy for Joseph Smith to be sealed (Again?) to Zina and then BY married her for time.

Would you find this strange or odd if it were anyone else other than BY?

And Henry was still a faithful member when crossing Iowa and BY sent him on a mission. And then Zina moved in with BY.

Would you find this strange or odd if it were anyone else other than BY?

And if I recall correctly Henry's discipline was for taking another wife after he learned about Zina moving in with BY. So Henry gets the boot for doing what BY and the leaders are doing.

Would you really not find all the strange and odd things that resulted from plural marriage as rather abhorrent were it anyone else you did not believe was a prophet of God?