Will Schryver Spits in the Face of John Tvedtnes

[_Mister Scratch]

Dr. Robbers---

This is fascinating indeed. Was he "forced out" of the MI? Is this why he's now an "associate" at SHIELDS? You know, it long seemed evident that there were divided factions within the ranks of the apologist, and this only adds more support. Another thing: I recall asking DCP if he thought Tvedtnes was a "major" apologist, and The Good Professor's reply was noticeably lukewarm.

[_harmony]

Are either of you going to answer any of my questions? Or is this just another of those attack with no substance threads you're known for, so you ignore every post but your own? If so, I'll not bother to read any further.

[_Mister Scratch]

Are either of you going to answer any of my questions? Or is this just another of those attack with no substance threads you're known for, so you ignore every post but your own? If so, I'll not bother to read any further.

Harmony,

Come on, now. The "substance" here is the behind-the-scenes goings on in Mopologetics---something which you have repeatedly derided, ridiculed, and condemned. That said, I'll be happy to answer your questions. Frankly, I thought you were just "thinking out loud," rather than asking legit questions to which you wanted actual answers. You've slammed these kinds of threads so many times that it's really kind of surprising to me that you'd actually try and seriously participate in the discussion. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, or anything like that; it's just that you, Liz, and a few others are always going on about how stupid (or "substance free"? or "boring"?) you think these sorts of threads are, so I'm always a bit baffled when you act is if you've decided to act differently.

Anyways, on to your questions:

Is Helorum someone we should recognize? Is Chozah? The remarks remind me of coming into a conversation in which I don't know any of the history, a few of the names are familiar but not all, and they're all talking past each other. Kinda like MAD.

I think that "Helorum" is just an old MAD poster. "Chozah" was one of Schryver's sockpuppets. This sockpuppet was actually banned from the old FAIR board, If I recall correctly.

Someone is actually named Richley Crapo????

Yes.

[_gramps]

I think Helorum is Matt Brown.

[_harmony]

Harmony,

Come on, now. The "substance" here is the behind-the-scenes goings on in Mopologetics---something which you have repeatedly derided, ridiculed, and condemned. That said, I'll be happy to answer your questions. Frankly, I thought you were just "thinking out loud," rather than asking legit questions to which you wanted actual answers. You've slammed these kinds of threads so many times that it's really kind of surprising to me that you'd actually try and seriously participate in the discussion. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, or anything like that; it's just that you, Liz, and a few others are always going on about how stupid (or "substance free"? or "boring"?) you think these sorts of threads are, so I'm always a bit baffled when you act is if you've decided to act differently.

Baffling people is evidently one of the things I do best, Scratch. Thanks for the answers. Back to your regularly scheduled post.

And thanks to Gramps. Although I don't know Matt Brown either.

[_moksha]

I can see an analogy, of that discussion in the MAD forum thread, to that of a group of tea leaf readers ferverently observing the same cup and seeking out new interpretations.

.

[_Gadianton]

it long seemed evident that there were divided factions within the ranks of the apologist, and this only adds more support

Absolutely. I mean, the story we get from the apologists is like a positivist's fairy tale. The recent Boyce article in the Review makes it clear that science is a politically charged battleground where everyone is playing dirty and the "truth" is usually a secondary consideration. So I have a hard time believing Will and others when they write that Tvedtnes just dropped his theory and bowed down to Gee, and that he'd just agree about what a crappy theory it was with Will and admit Will is smarter.

Tvedtnes, the young scholar of the sixties was articulating the avant-garde Mopologetic theory, his scholarly flamboyance unlikely just wilted one day because Gee or Schryver disagreed. It's very possible that tensions were mounting, and the MI had to make a "difficult decision".

[_harmony]

It's very possible that tensions were mounting, and the MI had to make a "difficult decision".

Is it not also possible that he simply wanted to retire?

[_Brent Metcalfe]

Hi folks,

For those who are interested, I corrected a few of Will's errors in the same thread here.

My best,

</brent>

http://mormonscripturestudies.com
(© 2009 Brent Lee Metcalfe. All rights reserved.)
——————————
The thesis of inspiration may not be invoked to guarantee historicity, for a divinely inspired story is not necessarily history.
—Raymond E. Brown

[_harmony]

Hi folks,

For those who are interested, I corrected a few of Will's errors in the same thread

I'm sure he was properly appreciative, in typical Will fashion.