Birds and the bees

[_Gazelam]

Well, my oldest sons about that age where its time to have the "Big Talk".

My question is have any of you more "seasoned" parents on this board got any good advise as to the best way to go about this.

Good experiences? Bad experiences and what should be avoided? I have some ideas of my own, but I thought some advise from those that have walked this road before me would be good to hear.

Thank you much

Gaz
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[_cinepro]

I recommend finding a good book that can "guide" the discussion, and then let the kid ask questions about the stuff he wants to talk about. I liked this book:

Where Did I Come From?

For older kids, here's the sequel:

What's Happening to Me? (From what I understand, books about puberty are either pro-masturbation, anti-masturbation, or just don't mention it. They also vary on their emphasis on pre-marital relations. Make sure you find a book that teaches what you want it to teach.)

I reserved about 5 books at the library, and then skimmed through them and decided on the one that I thought was most appropriate. But I really learned a lot from all of them. Who knew?

[_Dr. Shades]

Chances are he already knows everything you're planning to teach him.

[_bcspace]

I never sat down with any of them for a "big talk". I have answered some questions as they come up but it's true that they already know most of it. We have taught them what we expect about pre-marital sex and so on.

[_ludwigm]

The father:
- What did you do last vacation with the daughter of the holiday camp leader? Did you remember?
The son:
- With that hot blonde? Yes.
The father:
- OK. The birds and the bees do the same.

[_Gazelam]

My wife went down to the school to preview the film they want to show to the kids, and she said no way in hell is he going to see that.

They show an animated penis getting an erection and ejaculating. Does that seem appropriate to show to 5th graders? We wont be signing the permission slip.

I hadn't thought about finding a puberty book to flip through while talking to him. Might be good to try that out.

I myself never got "The Talk". So very soon I'll have to speak to him without a guidepost.

I don't think my kid knows anything. I did a trial run talk on a drive the other day, and judging by his reaction, hes she and doesent really know anything.

[_Yoda]

I recommend finding a good book that can "guide" the discussion, and then let the kid ask questions about the stuff he wants to talk about. I liked this book:

Where Did I Come From?

For older kids, here's the sequel:

What's Happening to Me? (From what I understand, books about puberty are either pro-masturbation, anti-masturbation, or just don't mention it. They also vary on their emphasis on pre-marital relations. Make sure you find a book that teaches what you want it to teach.)

I reserved about 5 books at the library, and then skimmed through them and decided on the one that I thought was most appropriate. But I really learned a lot from all of them. Who knew?

These are both excellent suggestions, Cinepro.

I've been through this with girls, Gaz, so I'm not sure how much help I can be. I may need some suggestions with my son. LOL (He's 5. At this point, his Dad and I have just tried to answer questions honestly, as they come up as far as general biology).

I talked with the girls about periods, wearing bras, etc. I think the main thing is just to not make the subject taboo. If your child feels comfortable talking to you, then he/she will be more likely to come to you rather than relying on friends for answers.

My wife went down to the school to preview the film they want to show to the kids, and she said no way in hell is he going to see that.

They show an animated penis getting an erection and ejaculating. Does that seem appropriate to show to 5th graders? We wont be signing the permission slip.

I'm sorry to hear about this. That doesn't sound like a very appropriate film.

The sex ed program at our schools here was very good. However, the girls knew what was being taught ahead of time. They kept things pretty general, and it was more like a biology class, really.

I think that you can balance, and teach the moral side of things, such as not having sex before marriage, modesty, etc. without saying that the body is bad, or something to be ashamed of. Keeping things positive is important so that the child has a healthy attitude toward him/herself, and doesn't view the body as something dirty or shameful.

Good luck, Gaz! Let us know how it goes.

[_Jersey Girl]

I just happened to see this post for the first time. Yes, I have something to add.

The film is an example of "push down curriculum" which means course content that isn't developmentally age appropriate. Our school systems are rampant with this and it trickles down to the youngest. What this means that we're teaching children in ways that aren't consistent with their stage of development and placing expectations on them that they're not well able to achieve. It's pervasive across the curriculum in most all public schools, produces stress on children, sets them up for failure, damaging to self esteem and the reason that "we" do this to our children has to do with funding. That is to say, schools compete for funding based on student testing scores where children have been "taught to the test" and have not necessarily constructed learning and knowledge. School systems do this to compete for funding, to please parents (who want their children to attend schools with "academic strength" and because parents are unfamiliar with stages of development in their own children.

Stepping off my soap box...

Fifth grade is borderline for sexual content. While in our society, boys/girls reach puberty at an earlier age (and people live longer) likely due to quality of nutrition and health care, I don't see the film described as age appropriate.

Perhaps for 6th/7th graders. 5th grade...I don't think so.

Here are some questions to ask yourself and I know you're rejecting the film...I agree with you on that.

1. Are these courses co-ed or gender divided? At least some of the units should be gender divided.

2. I agree with Shades that your child probably knows more than you suspect.

3. "Birds/Bees" should be part of an on-going dialogue that parents begin with their child in early childhood when parents begin correctly identifying and naming body parts during diapering and toilet learning, and pass on information to the child regarding reproduction in matter of fact ways when mom or other moms are pregnant and give birth. (In my observation, parents are doing a wonderful job of it these days. The young children that I teach correctly identify their body parts, are well aware of pregnancy and bring in ultrasound shots of their about-to-be siblings that we put on the light box and look at like an xray :-) and have added to our collection of xrays of feet, hands, shoulders, broken bones by giving us their ultrasound pictures.)

4. A general rule of thumb is to supply information when a child asks for it. If your child is a 5th grader and hasn't asked... either he knows, doesn't know, isn't comfortable with it or isn't interested in knowing right now.

5. How do you present this information? Honestly.

-What do you feel that your child needs to know?

-Can you match the course content from the school in your own way that is acceptable to you? (When those kids take the course, they're going to talk about it on playground, if you can match the course content, your child will be "in the know" even if he wasn't "in the class".)

-Would your child like some books to look at with you? ASK him. Don't take the power to choose away from him by thrusting books on him that he hasn't agreed to.

-Can you just say to him..."The school is having a course regarding sex/reproduction/male-female roles. I disagree with the presentation. I'd like to go over that with you myself here at home...would you like to just talk or would you also like some books to review?"

There you have giving him a heads up that this is going to happen so that he feels prepared. You have given him two choices (he's going to know that you're going to talk with him one way or the other). The two choices give him some control and the talk that you want to have (to offset the school's presentation) is going to take place.

GIVE HIM THE POWER TO CHOOSE.

This is somewhat of a big deal conversation that will open the door to on-going conversation. By giving him power to choose, control over some things, you are giving him respect, Gaz. As you well know, men have a strong need to feel respected. Show him what respect feels like from boyhood.

When he's made his choice (books or no books) then decide on a day, time and place. If he has difficulty absorbing information...break it down into 15 minute sessions, once each week.

I personally would recommend having some great study food on hand!

p.s. You have to do what I say because I know what I'm talking about. :-D If you follow only one piece of my advice, follow the one about giving him the power to choose and affording him respect. All important to a childs future is a positive self image. That self image is transmitted to a child first from parents. That is to say, "he is what you say he is". You "say" that he is worthy and valued, by showing him love and respect.

[_Jersey Girl]

One more thing...put your mindset in the position of partnering with him as a guide.

You can ask straightfoward questions...

"Have you noticed that your penis changes? "(yes)

"That's called an erection, I have them too. "

See????

Let him identify with you as the older male guide.

Get it???

Let Mrs. Gaz read this...she'll get it.

Editing: I think if you want to add something of a religious nature to the discussions, it would be appropriate to use the verse about being "fearfully and wonderfully made". (Ephesians?) I think that's a great message for a believer to transmit to their kids.

I also think that somewhere along the way, you might consider (if you think it fits) that you send the message that emotions are involved along with the physical stuff...responsibility to each other to care for emotions and reasons to live by the Law of Chastity. Real practical reasons, not just the sin/condemnation reasons, Gaz. I'm thinking in terms of messing up one's potential so far as pursuing education, having a good life style, living conditions. It's all tied together.

Okay...I'll tell you a story. :-)

When my kids were younger I sometimes spoke of an Aunt of mine. She had a kid "out of wedlock" just after high school, no husband at that time, went on to have various relationships with/without marriage, ended up having a small ton of kids, on welfare, eating canned soup, and the last time I saw her, she was living in a junkyard.

My question over the years in conversation with my kids was "Do you want to live in a junkyard or do you want to have a good life for yourself?"

[_Dr. Shades]

"Have you noticed that your penis changes? "(yes)

"That's called an erection, I have them too. "

See????

Forgive me, Jersey Girl, but I don't think it's necessary for Gaz to prove it by showing his own erection.