Will Schryver Spits in the Face of John Tvedtnes

[_Chap]

Serendipity, chance, and a bit of luck have played big roles in my life. Or... we can say that God's been watching over me and mine.

What difference does it make to which source the result is attributed, since the result is the same?

Two answers:

1. Truth matters a lot. Once you start teaching people that the best way to interact with the world around us is to believe whatever makes them feel happy and secure, where do you set the limits?

2. If all you are talking about is what you choose to whisper to yourself at night, fine. But many religions have a large number of practical consequences - giving away 10% of your income however poor you are (LDS), not using artificial contraception even if you already have ten children (RC), mutilating your daughters' genitals (some common versions of Islam). So it can be a matter of vital practical importance whether your religious belief is true or false.

[_harmony]

Serendipity, chance, and a bit of luck have played big roles in my life. Or... we can say that God's been watching over me and mine.

What difference does it make to which source the result is attributed, since the result is the same?

Two answers:

1. Truth matters a lot. Once you start teaching people that the best way to interact with the world around us is to believe whatever makes them feel happy and secure, where do you set the limits?

2. If all you are talking about is what you choose to whisper to yourself at night, fine. But many religions have a large number of practical consequences - giving away 10% of your income however poor you are (LDS), not using artificial contraception even if you already have ten children (RC), mutilating your daughters' genitals (some common versions of Islam). So it can be a matter of vital practical importance whether your religious belief is true or false.

Blaming God is an age-old scare tactic, Chap. Wooooo... the devil's gonna get you! Woooooo...God won't like that!

That doesn't mean it's the truth. That just means men (and relatively few women, although there is some documentation to support a few, but usually it's men) use religion as a tool to control other men. Greed, power, war, etc. in the name of God doesn't mean it's actually sanctioned by God. And no... I don't think he needs to interfere in the foolishness of men. Men can screw things up very well, all by themselves. They don't need God's help.

[_Chap]

Blaming God is an age-old scare tactic, Chap. Wooooo... the devil's gonna get you! Woooooo...God won't like that!

That doesn't mean it's the truth. That just means men (and relatively few women, although there is some documentation to support a few, but usually it's men) use religion as a tool to control other men. Greed, power, war, etc. in the name of God doesn't mean it's actually sanctioned by God. And no... I don't think he needs to interfere in the foolishness of men. Men can screw things up very well, all by themselves. They don't need God's help.

I don't see how what you are saying relates to my post. You seemed to say it didn't matter what you believe, so long as it works for you. I think that is not the case, and I gave two reasons for taking the attitude I do.

Would you like to address that point, and the arguments I made?

[_marg]

Serendipity, chance, and a bit of luck have played big roles in my life. Or... we can say that God's been watching over me and mine.

What difference does it make to which source the result is attributed, since the result is the same?

(I'm sorry if this is a tangent because I haven't followed entire thread) Quick comment to your question on 'what difference does it make what someone believes?' In the thread Schmo started on atheism you pointed out that beliefs affect people's behaviors. You said if people believe the U.S. President has access to a God, they are willing to vote for them as opposed to an atheist who would have no access. So it does matter very much what people believe when it affects their behavior, when the reasoning is irrational and when the choices as a result are not reliable and hence could be extremely poor.

[_harmony]

Serendipity, chance, and a bit of luck have played big roles in my life. Or... we can say that God's been watching over me and mine.

What difference does it make to which source the result is attributed, since the result is the same?

(I'm sorry if this is a tangent because I haven't followed entire thread) Quick comment to your question on 'what difference does it make what someone believes?'

I didn't say what difference does it matter what someone believes; I said what difference does it make to which source the result is attributed since the result is the same?

One may believe in God and attribute the result to luck or coincidence. Or one may not believe in God but may believe in luck or serendipity. The result remains the same.

In the thread Schmo started on atheism you pointed out that beliefs affect people's behaviors. You said if people believe the U.S. President has access to a God, they are willing to vote for them as opposed to an atheist who would have no access. So it does matter very much what people believe when it affects their behavior, when the reasoning is irrational and when the choices as a result are not reliable and hence could be extremely poor.

I don't see that it matters, except to atheists, who are having a hard time getting their candidate into office. The disempowered often don't like it much. Perhaps if atheists didn't come across as "we're so smart and you're so stupid", they'd have a bit more political success.

[_harmony]

Would you like to address that point, and the arguments I made?

Sorry I was a bit too obscure.

Just because men SAID God did it, or told them to do it, doesn't mean God actually did.

[_Calculus Crusader]

But... But.... CC... Are you sure? How do you know you're not going to Hell? Maybe the Islamists are right, and you're wrong?

I'm not worried. Besides which, even if the Islamists were right, Harvey Milk would still be in hell. Joe too, I reckon.

[_marg]

I didn't say what difference does it matter what someone believes; I said what difference does it make to which source the result is attributed since the result is the same?

One may believe in God and attribute the result to luck or coincidence. Or one may not believe in God but may believe in luck or serendipity. The result remains the same.

Are you saying that all that has happened to you has been a matter of luck or God. Isn't also a lot of what happens to you ..a function of choices you've made.

If behavior is affected by beliefs, and you pointed out in the other thread that belief in a God affects how a theist perceives the benefit of choosing a theist President, then God belief does make a difference in some important decision making. And quite often what someone thinks is a function of luck in their life is a function of good decision making.

I don't see that it matters, except to atheists, who are having a hard time getting their candidate into office. The disempowered often don't like it much. Perhaps if atheists didn't come across as "we're so smart and you're so stupid", they'd have a bit more political success.

But perhaps better choices could be made by theists when voting if they didn't hold the irrational belief that a theist President has access to a God assuming ...assuming you are right in your reasoning.

The point is that beliefs do affect behaviors. It does make a difference what someone believes when it comes to decisions people make in life.

[_Persephone]

How is that The Dude and others get banned for basically nothing, and yet William Schryver is permitted to unleash a brutal attack on Brent Metcalfe and no one even bats an eye over there?

Did you guys see that?

I’ll never understand that place.

[_CaliforniaKid]

How is that The Dude and others get banned for basically nothing, and yet William Schryver is permitted to unleash a brutal attack on Brent Metcalfe and no one even bats an eye over there?

Did you guys see that?

I saw it. It was shameful, to be sure. I didn't say anything because Brent is capable of defending himself, but actually I hope Brent doesn't say anything in reply. The post did not merit a response. I am quite disappointed that the denizens of the MAD board, including USU78 (for whom I used to have considerable respect), chose to applaud Will's display rather than resisting it.