Building the FARMS Ziggurat

[_asbestosman]

I would simply say that any man who either claims to strive for high standards or is a member of an organization that strives for high standards should at least be making an effort to adhere to those standards instead of merely excusing himself on the basis of human imperfection. Human imperfection is important to consider, but you should at least show a bit of regret for it if not outright contrition.

[_asbestosman]

Don't judge the church by the least flattering members. I consider that to be deceitful. William Schryver is not your typical Mormon fruit.

[_antishock8]

Don't judge the church by the least flattering members. I consider that to be deceitful. William Schryver is not your typical Mormon fruit.

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!!!!!!!

[_Yoda]

Will did apologize to me privately for his comments, and we are actually Internet friends of sorts. We have exchanged vocal recordings via email, and have "talked shop" since we both have a common interest in Musical Theater.

I know I'm blowing Will's cover here, but, he is actually quite a nice person when speaking with him in private.

It's almost like a Jeckyl and Hyde personality.

I still don't understand why he insists on callous, crass behavior here on the board.

Will, if you're still reading, I would love your opinion on my eternal progression thread in the Celestial Forum.

[_William Schryver]

asbestosman:

I would simply say that any man who either claims to strive for high standards or is a member of an organization that strives for high standards should at least be making an effort to adhere to those standards instead of merely excusing himself on the basis of human imperfection. Human imperfection is important to consider, but you should at least show a bit of regret for it if not outright contrition.

I feel neither regret nor contrition for anything I have ever written on this message board. I am willing to have it all read as I stand and listen at the day of judgment. I’m sure it will garner a few good laughs, without a doubt.

Don't judge the church by the least flattering members. I consider that to be deceitful. William Schryver is not your typical Mormon fruit.

Quite to the contrary, it is your flavor of ambivalence that is not your typical Mormon fruit. Hence your long-standing level of comfort here in The Great and Spacious Trailer Park™. You operate on the fringes of heterodoxy. I would venture to say that you have never been entrusted with a leadership position on account of the fact that the Spirit would never indicate such a choice to the those making the decision, and because you do not engender confidence in those around you.

I think what we are really seeing here is the disconnect between the actual doctrine of the restored gospel and the heresies of sectarian Christianity that are constantly seeking to make inroads into the Church, and whose virtual proponents on this message board are people that fancy themselves LDS, but whose beliefs veer sharply from those introduced and advocated by Joseph Smith.

The actual doctrine of the restoration is very materialistic, in the literal sense of that word. It emphasizes the importance of the acquisition of a body of flesh and bone, and of learning how to simultaneously enjoy and govern the passions that come with that body, as well as mastering the material world in which we have been placed; “subduing it” as it were; using its constituent materials to produce our own “creations.”

It glorifies the powers of procreation, and by extension, sexuality.

It emphasizes the formation of an actual, material, earthly kingdom.

It emphasizes the ultimate “celestial” glorification and eternalization of all those things: body, procreation, sexuality, and kingdom.

All of these things are almost anathema to the mindset of sectarian Christianity, whereas their opposite ideas in Christianity are the very epitome of the kind of twisted aesthetic and asceticism that corrupted the early church and resulted in the great apostasy.

I will even consent that the modern church has gone through periods when these sectarian Chrisitan influences have held inordinate sway over doctrinal interpretation and exposition. Fortunately, those kinds of ideas are undergoing a rapidly diminishing influence in recent years, such that – notwithstanding the proper emphasis of righteousness and virtue in all things -- there is an increasingly evident undertone and acknowledgment of the essential materialistic aspects of the restored gospel. I believe we will see a steady increase in that emphasis as the “division of the people” continues and the second coming draws nigh.

We can afford to lose the kinds of “Saints” that find greater congeniality with the false and incomplete doctrines of sectarian Christianity. In fact, if they are not drawn in by the centripetal force of the continued “gathering of Zion,” then they will necessarily succumb to the centrifugal force of its ever-increasing mass and the compression of time as this dispensation draws to its close.

Of course, everything I have just said in response to asbestosman’s aspersions really amounts, in the context of this place, to nothing more than casting one’s pearls before swine. Even so, I am confident that there are some unseen followers of this discussion who will profit therefrom, and so I will leave it as I have written it.

[_asbestosman]

It's almost like a Jeckyl and Hyde personality.

I still don't understand why he insists on callous, crass behavior here on the board.

Maybe it's Will's version of Wade's textual mirror. Maybe in getting people to condemn him he thinks they're actually condemning their own behavior as he tries to reflect it. Maybe not.

[_William Schryver]

It's almost like a Jeckyl and Hyde personality.

I still don't understand why he insists on callous, crass behavior here on the board.

Maybe it's Will's version of Wade's textual mirror. Maybe in getting people to condemn him he thinks they're actually condemning their own behavior as he tries to reflect it. Maybe not.

Maybe not.

Maybe, in fact, the problem is a profound difference of opinion in what actually constitutes "callous, crass behavior."

I can assure you that there are a considerable number of what would be considered completely orthodox LDS who look in on these heated discussions I engender with you folks, and who do not perceive the degree of "callous, crass behavior" that many of you claim is there. Of course, they're not nearly as humor- and irony-challenged as are the majority of exmormons and the ambivalent nominal Mormon hangers on that associate with them.

[_antishock8]

I feel neither regret nor contrition for anything I have ever written on this message board. I am willing to have it all read as I stand and listen at the day of judgment. I’m sure it will garner a few good laughs, without a doubt.

How about in Sacrament Meeting in front of everyone? Or how about in Young Womens?

[_asbestosman]

Will wins. Real Mormons are not comfortable hanging out here.

[_Some Schmo]

I feel neither regret nor contrition for anything I have ever written on this message board. I am willing to have it all read as I stand and listen at the day of judgment. I’m sure it will garner a few good laughs, without a doubt.

How about in Sacrament Meeting in front of everyone? Or how about in Young Womens?

Yep, I've decided he's full of sh*t (and a bit a of a moron to boot).




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