West Ridge Academy Missionaries Tutor With Love

[_rcrocket]

Bob, are you saying that a child who committed a serious, violent crime was sent there rather than a detention facility? You write the child was "about" to be admitted... was s/he?

[_rcrocket]

As I have plainly stated this week, I will be departing this board. The consequences of participation (a complaint to the state bar by one of you about my debate practices) makes it too costly to be here.

[_harmony]

That's not good enough, specify what I've said that isn't factual.

Anything GoodK said is allegation, not fact, marg. Learn the difference.

[_truth dancer]

Bob, are you saying that a child who committed a serious, violent crime was sent there rather than a detention facility? You write the child was "about" to be admitted... was s/he?

For the first one, age would explain a lot here.

For the second one, the parents were getting the process under way. I talked them out of it.

Seems to me, someone who wanted to sue the institution could use this information. Claiming to exclude violent children when they are actually housing them? Misleading parents and others into thinking they are just taking children with soft to moderate behavioral issues when if fact they are taking rapists and extremely violent children. Wow!

The more I know about this institution the worse it gets.

[_marg]

That's not good enough, specify what I've said that isn't factual.

Anything GoodK said is allegation, not fact, marg. Learn the difference.

Again not good enough. But that's par for the course from you. Take my words which I said are fact, and tell me which aren't.

[_marg]

So I don't think you can assume Eric has anything to do with dysfunction in the family. But I think you can assume that the Church's teachings is a factor in the step dad's dysfunctionality.

I've never said the family is dysfunctional.

Check and mate.

This was a response to Harmony in which she claimed the family was dysfunctional. I was pointing out if she wished to assume a dysfunctional family(it's not something I've assumed) then in my opinion it was not a function of Eric, it would be a function of the dysfunctionality of the dad.

You are doing it again! His dad said he's not fundamentally bad, so could you please stop insinuating otherwise.

No I wasn't. I disagree with your continued claim that place doesn't take violent kids.

The Westridge website claims to not take violent kids. Go argue that with them.

[_EAllusion]

I know on the West Ridge site it had this posted at least at one time:

What Your Child May Do

Typically your child will be uncomfortable or in denial as to the reasons he/she is here. He/she may try several types of manipulation to get your attention and to help himself/herself cope. Usually, these are the same manipulative or coping behaviors he/she used with you in the past. It is our goal to change those negative behaviors so your child can function appropriately in society. You may see the following attempts at manipulation:

" Deathbed Repentance. Examples include I see the errors of my ways. I have changed and you can take me home now. I will be good.

" It may feel good to not be the bad guy and be in the position to rescue your child. Or you may be in pain yourself and want to have your child at home. Dont fall for this manipulation. Beware of believing that your child has the capacity to change this quickly, or that he/she is sincerely repentant. Nearly all of our students attempt this manipulation in some form, yet not a single one has the skills needed to successfully return home at this point. They will relapse and resume their bad behaviors.

" Negotiation. Example: If you take me out of here, I will be good forever!

" Your child is not in the position to negotiate. His/her integrity has not been developed and change will take time. Your child will not have the inner resources to maintain any lasting change at all.

" Hostage Taking. Example: If you leave me at West Ridge, I will hate you forever. If you leave me here, I will run away or hurt myself.

" Your child is using your love for him/her against you. Your child knows this is the ace that will get your attention by making you feel guilty. Your child is hoping that you will back off and not insist that he/she change.

" Triangulation/Splitting. Example: Your child gets you alone and tells you about the mean things staff members are saying to him/her.

" This is where your child will try to split one parent against the therapist or the other parent to get his/her way. The childs goal is to dismantle those who are holding him/her accountable for his/her actions. Your child may even say, Dont tell the therapist because I will get into trouble. The more united we are, the more effective the treatment and program will be.

" Fear Factor. Example: All my roommates are drug addicts or gay. I am not as bad as everyone else here. The staff beats up the students. The food isnt nutritious. The school isnt very good.

" This is probably the most subtle and commonly used tool. If your child uses this technique, his/her goal is to split us. Your child is playing upon your fears to attempt to change the outcome. Your child wants West Ridge Academy to become the bad guy. If you have concerns, please check them out with your therapist in a way that continues to support the therapy we are doing. Fears are normal but usually based on false evidence. Never let your child see you challenge staff or West Ridge as a whole. Always bring your concerns to us outside of your child's presence.

That's asking for an environment friendly to abuse and cover-up. It's completely unacceptable and should be interpreted as a warning flag for anyone interested in it. After all, there are terribly abusive juvenile, often religious, boot-reform-camps out there. To be frank, if it was happening in my neck of the woods it would probably quickly result in a investigation by the State. My understanding is that Utah has loose laws in this regard and as a consequence is a magnet for harsh "boys ranch" type places.

[_EAllusion]

Finally, negative reinforcement is not punishment. Reinforcement by definition increases behavior. Punishment by definition suppresses behavior.

This isn't accurate. A reward can reinforce cessation of a behavior and visa versa for punishiment. To technically be a reinforcer, a stimulus must increase the probability of a given response. But that response can be not acting in a certain way. The rest is accurate. Negative reinforcement is the removal of something undesirable. Positive reinforcement is providing something desireable. Likewise, negative punishment is removing something desirable while positive punishment is adding something undesireable.

Punishment is looked low upon by approaches developed out of behaviorist psychology.

Your broader point is absolutely correct. The "therapists" and "behavior modification programs" at typical places like this are a joke and should not in any way be associated with more respectable psychological programs simply because they use similar terminology.

[_Ray A]

That's asking for an environment friendly to abuse and cover-up. It's completely unacceptable and should be interpreted as a warning flag for anyone interested in it. After all, there are terribly abusive juvenile, often religious, boot-reform-camps out there. To be frank, if it was happening in my neck of the woods it would probably quickly result in a investigation by the State. My understanding is that Utah has loose laws in this regard and as a consequence is a magnet for harsh "boys ranch" type places.

That's exactly the portion I was referring to earlier. My concern is that children who have not done egregious things may be subjected to abuse.

WHO decides this? A psychologist? What assessments are in place for those who enter "the ranch"? Or is money the prime consideration? I'd take it upon myself to straighten out my own kids before I considered this. It almost seems like an easy solution - pay someone else to wash your dog.

[_GoodK]

My favorite response to this silly little West Ridge advertisement was from my friend Kade, who said, "Snowboarding? Jesus Christ! I remember wanting to be snowboarding, thinking about how badly it sucked to not be snowboarding -- but I certainly don't remember going on any snowboarding trips."