Oh, what a tangled web...

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_Droopy
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Oh, what a tangled web...

Post by _Droopy »

My step-sister who goes to school in Utah came down with a bad infection and was very seriously ill, to the point where my mother and step-father told me she may not make it. After a week in the hospital, she is doing better, but I went to my email inbox to find that I was CC'd on the following email from my step-father - needless to say he's one of the F.A.R.M.S cronies and what I consider to be a Mormon Blowhard:



I want to ask him why God decided to give this poor girl such a horrible disease, or why the priesthood blessings didn't cure her outright, and so on...


This was the beginning. This was the humiliation given through GoodK's use of a tragic and delicate time in the life of this family, and the pulling together of this family through the Church and Gospel in support of a fallen family member as a foil for his own ugly bigotries and resentments, and as a chance to kick this family in the teeth from their flank regarding, specifically, the Gospel being the central organizing principle of their support of and hope for that sick family member.

I considered this beneath contempt then, and still do today.

Here was my original reaction to this post:

...This post is both too facile and too conspicuously evil in its ground and intent to do any justice to by way of refutation.


I stand by this today and, given GoodK's most recent behavior regarding DCP, this position seems vindicated indeed.

I also said this:

It takes evil--truly pitiable evil--to turn this mans love, concern, and compassion for another and his use of his Priesthood to bless and comfort, into a disreputable action and the person himself into a "blowhard".

Abject, Stygian evil.


I stand by this statement as well. I don't know GoodK, beyond what I've experienced of him in this forum, but no matter who it may have been, this kind of behavior, which GoodK and his sycophants here have endeavored to sugarcoat, whitewash, explain away, and defend, remains what it is. But of course, within the angry exmo world, where no morality or ethics of any kind exists to dampen or restrict such attitudes or behavior, we have what we receive.

Bob Crockett than posted the following:

Shame on you for anonymously injuring your family in its very darkest hour. I pray for them. I pray that you will soften your heart.


This expresses precisely my immediate and initial reaction to GoodK's post. You know, its the kind of thing Bill Maher would put in a movie attacking religion; a bedside smear against God and religion as family members gathered around and prayed for a loved one, and it would be thought of as a very clever, smarmy groin kick.

Those who have circled the wagons around GoodK in this forum partake of the opprobrium attached to him for this behavior.

But GoodK was just warming up. Here was his response to Bob's reaction:

Actually, Bob, I wasn't the one doing the injuring.

It is ridiculous to give credit to God for healing a disease he gave to someone in the first place.


So here, GoodK makes plain the intention of the post: to attack the religion of his family at a time of uncertainty and sorrow and around which the family was gathering for hope and comfort. We have here, to make it clearer, in GoodK's own words, the admittance that the intent was to humiliate the family; to attack their faith at a vulnerable time.

Yet again, Bob's reaction was the rather obvious psychological and intellectual reaction one would expect in such a situation:

It is unreasonable to make fun, anonymously, of your step-father and your mother when they rather need your support and love. Again, I hope your heart will be softened.


What would GoodK, or anyone else expect under the conditions of such an obvious and mean spirited provocation?

Bob continued, and we have a preview of GoodK's modus operandi and a shape of things to come:

I only object to the post in that it comes from a family member poking fun at the rest of the family for a real terrible problem they are going through. I think the milk of human kindness, whether one is Muslim or atheist, would require some respect for privacy and some compassion at this time. The family GoodK pokes fun at is known by hundreds of people.

In a PM to me GoodK threatened to start posting personal information about my family if I told his/her step-father about what is being said about the family here. I can't imagine any member of that family resorting to extortion so I doubt GoodK is who he/she says he/she is. I have met the kids and they are the greatest.


GoodK immediately begins making private threats after publically posting an insulting and cruel attack on this own family's religion in time of sickness.

How typical of this place. How typical of the exmo mindset and ethical structure. Anonymous posters slash and burn, hack and slay, and then cry "You'd better not tell!"

GoodK had a succinct and yet again revealing response:

I find it foul and disgusting to recieve a newsbulletin about how she has been healed through the power of prayer and the priesthood, as if God would have let her die if my family happened to pick the wrong religion.

Kiss my ass Bob.


GoodK's merry maids immediately fired up the spin machine and began the attempted re-framing of reality. Words and phrases we thought we understood in the English language came under withering assault.

This entire thing is so sick, so petty, and so, so, well...so exmo, that it freezes the soul.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: Oh, what a tangled web...

Post by _Droopy »

Actually, Bob, I wasn't the one doing the injuring.

It is ridiculous to give credit to God for healing a disease he gave to someone in the first place.



I do also have to observe here the manner in which GoodK attempts to turn the tables on his critics by assuming, either for himself and perhaps for his stepsister, the status of victim. It is his stepfather that was victimizing and injuring others by giving the blessing, and ascribing the the God he believes in the ability to heal and care.

Good heavens this is sick.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Dr. Shades
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Post by _Dr. Shades »

Droopy wrote:This was the humiliation given through GoodK's use of a tragic and delicate time in the life of this family, and the pulling together of this family through the Church and Gospel in support of a fallen family member as a foil for his own ugly bigotries and resentments, and as a chance to kick this family in the teeth from their flank regarding, specifically, the Gospel being the central organizing principle of their support of and hope for that sick family member.

Wasn't his original point true, that competent medical care should've been "the central organizing principle of their support of and hope for that sick family member," rather than supplications to the selfsame deity who gave the family member the disease in the first place?

So here, GoodK makes plain the intention of the post: to attack the religion of his family at a time of uncertainty and sorrow and around which the family was gathering for hope and comfort.

No, the intent of his post was to question the mindset of the man who gave all the credit to religious supplications rather than to competent medical care.

We have here, to make it clearer, in GoodK's own words, the admittance that the intent was to humiliate the family; to attack their faith at a vulnerable time.

No, we have his own words that his intent was to question the mindset of the man who gave all the credit to religious supplications rather than to competent medical care.

GoodK immediately begins making private threats after publically posting an insulting and cruel attack on this own family's religion in time of sickness.

So, in times of sickness, religion gets a free pass? Who made that rule?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_silentkid
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Re: Oh, what a tangled web...

Post by _silentkid »

Could someone please explain the mechanism of faith healing? How does a priesthood blessing with oil actually heal someone? What does it do, specifically?
_Droopy
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Re: Oh, what a tangled web...

Post by _Droopy »

Wasn't his original point true, that competent medical care should've been "the central organizing principle of their support of and hope for that sick family member," rather than supplications to the selfsame deity who gave the family member the disease in the first place?


Is philosophical thinness of this caliber really all we can expect here? Yes, I've come to the conclusion that it is, self selected as most of those who populate this forum in point of fact are.

God "gave" this disease to the family member? In what sense?

No, the intent of his post was to question the mindset of the man who gave all the credit to religious supplications rather than to competent medical care.


No, that was not the intent of the post. I assume this is not a reading comprehension problem on your part but just you standard intellectual puffery in search of a debating point.

Here was the intent of the post:

I want to ask him why God decided to give this poor girl such a horrible disease, or why the priesthood blessings didn't cure her outright, and so on...


She had been in the hospital for a week. Competent care was not in play. Attacking God, the concept of the Priesthood and miraculous divine intervention in the healing process, was.

I guess you really need this spelled out for you in excruciating detail don't you, even though the words themselves are right there in the OP?

No, we have his own words that his intent was to question the mindset of the man who gave all the credit to religious supplications rather than to competent medical care.


Oh, you mean this:

We are certain that the prayers and positive thoughts offered by so many people played a significant and profound part in ****'s healing. Also, the many expressions of concern, hope, and love offered by many people that contacted us via email, telephone, and text messaging, enabled ***** to know that you are all rooting for her, and this gave her (and us) strength.

And something more: members of our congregation back in California, along with others, fasted on behalf of her, and we believe this had a profound effect in opening the heavens and receiving a miracle.....


You can't even be honest about the substance of his words when you have those very words in front of your nose. The girl was in the hospital for a reason - competent care. The blessings may be an adjunct to such care, as most LDS probably understand them to be, or they may indeed, by wholly responsible for recovery. Who's to say in one situation or another. But, as you have no understanding whatsoever of spiritual things, you have no competence to judge their effects. Pathetic performance Slim.

So, in times of sickness, religion gets a free pass? Who made that rule?
[/quote]

If you're really this clueless regarding LDS doctrine and philosophy in this area, little discussion is possible. But then, your particular brand of cluelessness is well nurtured and cultivated, its hardly ignorance in the conventional sense, I realize.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Inconceivable
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Offended for Jesus

Post by _Inconceivable »

Droopy wrote:I considered this beneath contempt then, and still do today..


Duly noted - ad nausium.

Are you reminding us for the Jesus Christ that you, DCP, Crocket, Schriver and a step dad claim to represent? Droopy, are you one of those Mormons for Jesus?

In fact, I think the only thing Jesus Christ required of his disciples was something about turning cheeks, offering robes, extra miles and blessing those that curse you..

Go ahead throw me a retort.

Bottom line, you are the one that professes the only valid belief in the Greatest Peacemaker known to mankind.

So, are you speaking as a man or as Jesus Christ's legal administrator?

Please let us know when you're flipping the switch one way or the other.
_Droopy
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Re: Oh, what a tangled web...

Post by _Droopy »

In fact, I think the only thing Jesus Christ required of his disciples was something about turning cheeks, offering robes, extra miles and blessing those that curse you..

Go ahead throw me a retort.



Given this, I'd retort by saying it would have probably been a good idea to spend a little more than five minutes in the text of the Bible in the last twenty years.

And you might try just a few more in the next.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Blixa
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Re: Offended for Jesus

Post by _Blixa »

Inconceivable wrote:So, are you speaking as a man or as Jesus Christ's legal administrator?


Image
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Inconceivable
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Re: Oh, what a tangled web...

Post by _Inconceivable »

Blixa,

Yikes. If that's what the Mormon Jesus Christ looks like, I know where his brother got his horns and tail.

Droops, is this the guy you're trotting behind?
_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Oh, what a tangled web...

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

Inconceivable wrote:Blixa,

Yikes. If that's what the Mormon Jesus Christ looks like, I know where his brother got his horns and tail.

Droops, is this the guy you're trotting behind?


No, that's the guy he's frotting behind.

(Don't look up that word, by the way.)
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
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