The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

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_Ray A

The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

Post by _Ray A »

I know there are some relatively new posters here, so for the benefit of those who may have missed it:

Lavina Fielding Anderson, The LDS Intellectual Community and Church Leadership - A Contemporary Chronology (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Volume 26, Number 1, Spring 1993 ).

Wiki: Strengthening Church Members Committee.

Other reports:

Mormon Church keeps files on its dissenters.

Secret Files (New York Times).

The Mormon Church has confirmed what its critics have been charging: that it keeps files on members who criticize church policies and passes the information along to the critics' local church leaders.

At a recent symposium in Salt Lake City, Lavina Fielding Anderson, the editor of The Journal of Mormon History, which is not sponsored by the church, spoke of "an internal espionage system" in detailing what she said was church intimidation of Mormon intellectuals and feminists. Her assertions were echoed by other participants in the meeting, sponsored by the Sunstone Foundation, an independent Mormon group.

This month Don LeFevre, the church's spokesman in Salt Lake City, acknowledged that a committee of high-ranking Mormon officials "provides local church leadership with information designed to help them counsel with members who, however well-meaning, may hinder the progress of the church through public criticism."

F. Ross Petersen, a Mormon historian, told The Salt Lake Tribune that two years ago local church officials had questioned him about public comments he had made on changes in Mormon ceremonies. At the interview, he said, the officials relied on a file of photocopied material and asked him about things he had written decades earlier, but they refused to let him examine the file.

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_karl61
_Emeritus
Posts: 2983
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:29 pm

Re: The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

Post by _karl61 »

Man - I thought I was paranoid. Why are they so paranoid. I mean if God is on your side who cares what the other side does. You still win.
I want to fly!
_Ray A

Re: The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

Post by _Ray A »

I believe the Church also monitors blogs and forum comments. I have no hard evidence for this, but it would be incongruent to think otherwise, when one understands the nature of the SCMC. Why, in the age of technology, would it only monitor what's in print?
_Mike Reed
_Emeritus
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Re: The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

Post by _Mike Reed »

Ray A wrote:I believe the Church also monitors blogs and forum comments. I have no hard evidence for this, but it would be incongruent to think otherwise, when one understands the nature of the SCMC. Why, in the age of technology, would it only monitor what's in print?
Interesting thought, Ray. You may be right. I wonder though, if the Church would have the man power enough to pull this off, while at the same time, have the man power be small enough to ensure that information about it wouldn't get leaked out.
_Ray A

Re: The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

Post by _Ray A »

Mike Reed wrote:Interesting thought, Ray. You may be right. I wonder though, if the Church would have the man power enough to pull this off, while at the same time, have the man power be small enough to ensure that information about it wouldn't get leaked out.


Several points, Mike. It doesn't take much man power. DCP has single-handedly monitored RFM. And this board. Just an example of what's possible. I had FBI hits on my former blog, and that was one of the lesser reasons I pulled it down. I didn't know what "they" might do next. I have nothing to hide, but it felt like I was being "monitored", and it was a creepy feeling. I pulled down my Facebook account for the same reasons.

Who in Mormonland is going to admit that virtually all Internet conversations are monitored? None, is the answer. They are no threat to me, because I'm an exmormon, but they could be a threat to those who still hold Church membership but are critical. In spite of all the denials, I refuse to believe that the Internet is free of "SCMC" influence. They may not act immediately, but they record everything. That is where this Church ventures into "Scientology grounds", only they are better at keeping it under wraps.

You have to read what the SCMC's mission is, and until that is disbanded, fear and tremble if you think you can offer "innocent" criticisms of "the Church". I'm only warning those who think that what they write on forums goes undetected. It doesn't.
_Mike Reed
_Emeritus
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:28 pm

Re: The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

Post by _Mike Reed »

I hear what you are saying, Ray, and I think we are mostly in agreement about this. I still not sure about the "man power" it would take to monitor the entire internet. I am wondering if that is even possible--to do so in any thorough way. That is indeed creepy that the FBI was checking out your site. But yeah... I wouldn't be surprised if this forum, MADb, myspace, and popular blogs are monitored. And specific individuals could be red flagged and kept track of. If I were to guess, I would say that they are. Either way, it is better to be safe than sorry. Better to use a random name, or the name of a disaffected Mormon apologist as a pseudonym. ;) I also wonder, though, if the Church keeps record of the times I defend Mormonism from the sensational nonsense of counter-cultist fundamentalists… or only my critical posts against the Church.
Last edited by Hawkeye on Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
_Ray A

Re: The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

Post by _Ray A »

Mike Reed wrote:I hear what you are saying, Ray, and I think we are mostly in agreement about this. I am just wondering about the "man power" it would take to monitor the entire internet. I am wondering if that is even possible--to do so in any thorough way. But yeah... I wouldn't be surprised if this forum, MADb, myspace, and popular blogs are monitored. If I were to guess, I would say that they are. Either way, it is better to be safe than sorry. Better to use a random name, or the name of a disaffected Mormon apologist as a pseudonym. ;) I also wonder, though, if the Church keeps record of the times I defend Mormonism from the sensational nonsense of counter-cultist fundamentalists… or only my critical posts against the Church.


Mike, I don't believe they monitor the whole Internet. That would not be possible. But I believe all ex-Mormon forums are monitored. And critical blogs. This is in line with the mission of the SCMC, as outlined in D&C 123.

4 And perhaps a committee can be appointed to find out these things, and to take statements and affidavits; and also to gather up the libelous publications that are afloat;
5 And all that are in the magazines, and in the encyclopedias, and all the libelous histories that are published, and are writing, and by whom, and present the whole concatenation of diabolical rascality and nefarious and murderous impositions that have been practised upon this people—


The internet will be exempt? LOL.

I think "the Church" will balance your thoughts and criticisms. Hopefully, you will have more leniency than David Wright did. No guarantee there. He wanted to remain a member but was devoured by the sharks, led by Droopy-like assassins.

If you're really concerned about remaining a member, and you really believe, I think they will have the brains to discern this, as long as you don't present too many "destructive" arguments that "weakens faith".

As for me, the Church, and the SCMC, they can go gobble all the cock they want, and have all the wives they want to please their vain ambition. Because as far as I'm concerned it's just one big drunken Pharisee binge. And MAD proves it.

They have lost me in their total, fundamentalist idiocy. So I'm sorry to say it, but they can go get screwed.

If you choose to remain Mormon, I wish you the best. I think you are a sincere person. A rareity in Mormonism, which is filled with arrogant pretenders like Drippy.
_Mike Reed
_Emeritus
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:28 pm

Re: The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

Post by _Mike Reed »

Ray A wrote:Mike, I don't believe they monitor the whole Internet. That would not be possible. But I believe all ex-Mormon forums are monitored. And critical blogs. This is in line with the mission of the SCMC, as outlined in D&C 123.

Ok. I understand now. I misread your comments. Thanks for the clarification, Ray.

Never mind me. Cary on...
_Ray A

Re: The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

Post by _Ray A »

If you really want to seek the spiritual life, Mike, don't even bother with Mormonism. It's a total sham.

Best to you.
_Danna

Re: The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

Post by _Danna »

6 That we may not only publish to all the world, but present them to the heads of government in all their dark and hellish hue, as the last effort which is enjoined on us by our Heavenly Father, before we can fully and completely claim that promise which shall call him forth from his hiding place; and also that the whole nation may be left without excuse before he can send forth the power of his mighty arm.


Uh oh
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