The Church's "Internal Espionage System".

[_Coca Cola]

I read the Dialogue article Ray A. linked to, recounting a history of "persecution" (for lack of a better word) of intellectuals, feminists and such up until 1993.

So.. for those of you who read Dialogue, does the Church still continue to ask Stake Presidents to call into their offices those writers who publish articles in Sunstone or Dialogue, or the Mormon History Review? Are they still harrassed for this?

Do they still fire BYU professors who publish in those journals -- or do no BYU professors publish there anymore?

What is the current situation in the church with respect to dissidents, intellectuals, feminists and such (I'm aware of the situation with the gay community)?

[_rcrocket]

So.. for those of you who read Dialogue, does the Church still continue to ask Stake Presidents to call into their offices those writers who publish articles in Sunstone or Dialogue, or the Mormon History Review? Are they still harrassed for this?

Do they still fire BYU professors who publish in those journals -- or do no BYU professors publish there anymore?

What is the current situation in the church with respect to dissidents, intellectuals, feminists and such (I'm aware of the situation with the gay community)?

There is no organized effort to purge "dissidents, intellectuals, feminists and such." But, there is a New Testament mandate to "cut off" those who publicly trouble with apostacy and the LDS Church follows that mandate when it must. It happens.

I've published in Sunstone. (A little piece.) No stake president called me into his office. I "publish" here and there are at least two people on this board who know my stake president; nobody's called me on it.

[_Ray A]

What is the current situation in the church with respect to dissidents, intellectuals, feminists and such (I'm aware of the situation with the gay community)?

I don't think anything has changed. And according to BYU's statement on academic freedom, you have to agree to the university's policies if you are enrolled. I would say two things have happened. First is a hesitation on the part of the Church to "anxiously" pursue "dissidents" because of bad publicity in the '90s, although Grant Palmer was disfellowshipped in 2004, and his book pulled from Deseret bookshelves.

Second, I think "intellectuals" are more aware of their boundaries. You're unlikely to find any "Quinn-like" writing from BYU professors in journals anymore.

It also depends on who your bishop/stake president is. Sterling Mc Murrin's leaders wanted to excommunicate him, but David O. McKay put an end to that. David Wright wasn't so lucky. Some leaders are likely to let "heretics" go, while others won't. An interesting case is that of Michael Barrett in 1994. However, what Barrett wrote then is now commonly discussed on forums like MAD, so the Internet has, so to speak, opened the floodgates. Members are less likely to want to write letters to editors before participating in controversial forum discussion, and that allows them anonymity. So I would say the Church has far less control now. RFM, for example, is frequented by posters who are almost all anonymous. They can blast the Church to their heart's content without repercussions, which they cannot do in the print media without being discovered, or if they used their real names.

Bob doesn't have to worry, because I'm sure whatever he wrote in Sunstone wouldn't have landed him in hot water, judging by what he writes here. But for anyone concerned about their Church status, I would advise anonymity on forums as a precaution. It depends too on far you go with criticism. Teancum, who posts on MAD, recently revealed that he holds a high position in the Church, and he's very careful about guarding his anonymity. I don't think such a concern is without merit. He often sides with and defends critics.

[_Ray A]

I just noticed this link in Bob's sig line.

Who is

Justin Thames?

This blog follows the members of Mormondiscussions.com. It provides commentary about active posters with more than 500 posts. I am an IT professional located in DeKalb, IL.

His information isn't very accurate:

Beastie: LDS Knowledge: 7; Trustworthiness: 5. A single mother of perhaps four children, former missionary for the Mormon Church, divorced. In her 30s. A vicious temper at times, and extremely critical of the Mormon faith. In recent history she has been trying to control her temper. Considered a "pundit" on the rival MAD board. Has detailed knowledge of some aspects of Mormon doctrine, with little knowledge of large segments of Mormon doctrine. She can be a formidable foe. Atheist. Prolific poster; Board addict.(Emphasis added)

Though I'm sure beastie would be flattered if he judged her age by the photos she recently posted.

[_beastie]

LOL

I know of only one poster who would seriously say I have a "vicious temper", and that's the one poster who has actually experienced real anger from me - bob.

But getting angry one or two times in all these years of posting with people like bob sounds like a pretty decent track record to me.

[_karl61]

So.. for those of you who read Dialogue, does the Church still continue to ask Stake Presidents to call into their offices those writers who publish articles in Sunstone or Dialogue, or the Mormon History Review? Are they still harrassed for this?

Do they still fire BYU professors who publish in those journals -- or do no BYU professors publish there anymore?

What is the current situation in the church with respect to dissidents, intellectuals, feminists and such (I'm aware of the situation with the gay community)?

There is no organized effort to purge "dissidents, intellectuals, feminists and such." But, there is a New Testament mandate to "cut off" those who publicly trouble with apostacy and the LDS Church follows that mandate when it must. It happens.

I've published in Sunstone. (A little piece.) No stake president called me into his office. I "publish" here and there are at least two people on this board who know my stake president; nobody's called me on it.

The church cuts off people that do not out in public. They think it's the best thing for them. It may have the effect of a gang rape on the individual but they don't care and just move on down the road. The New Testament records the Lord sitting down and eating with people that the Jews despised. He said the sick need a physician. He didn't toss people who wanted to be better each day but some times slipped and fell.

[_harmony]

I just noticed this link in Bob's sig line.

Who is

Justin Thames?

This blog follows the members of Mormondiscussions.com. It provides commentary about active posters with more than 500 posts. I am an IT professional located in DeKalb, IL.

His information isn't very accurate:

Beastie: LDS Knowledge: 7; Trustworthiness: 5. A single mother of perhaps four children, former missionary for the Mormon Church, divorced. In her 30s. A vicious temper at times, and extremely critical of the Mormon faith. In recent history she has been trying to control her temper. Considered a "pundit" on the rival MAD board. Has detailed knowledge of some aspects of Mormon doctrine, with little knowledge of large segments of Mormon doctrine. She can be a formidable foe. Atheist. Prolific poster; Board addict.(Emphasis added)

Though I'm sure beastie would be flattered if he judged her age by the photos she recently posted.

500 posters? Wow.

He doesn't' even mention Beastie's extensive knowledge of Mesoamerica, so I suspect he doesn't know much at all.

[_Jersey Girl]

I just noticed this link in Bob's sig line.

Who is

Justin Thames?

This blog follows the members of Mormondiscussions.com. It provides commentary about active posters with more than 500 posts. I am an IT professional located in DeKalb, IL.

His information isn't very accurate:

Beastie: LDS Knowledge: 7; Trustworthiness: 5. A single mother of perhaps four children, former missionary for the Mormon Church, divorced. In her 30s. A vicious temper at times, and extremely critical of the Mormon faith. In recent history she has been trying to control her temper. Considered a "pundit" on the rival MAD board. Has detailed knowledge of some aspects of Mormon doctrine, with little knowledge of large segments of Mormon doctrine. She can be a formidable foe. Atheist. Prolific poster; Board addict.(Emphasis added)

Though I'm sure beastie would be flattered if he judged her age by the photos she recently posted.

That's just creepy.

[_Ray A]

That's just creepy.

And it should give a further idea on how "dossiers" can be kept on posters.

[_Dwight Frye]

How can there be no entry for Mister/Doctor Scratch? An unforgiveable oversight.