Fact Checking Nelson's "Doors Of Death" light aircraft near death experience

[Res Ipsa]

Speculation ain't evidence. The easiest way to be wrong is to imagine what you think must have happened.

Hi Res,

I'm sorry, I just want to make sure I'm understanding the overall meaning of the above -- or if I'm just overthinking a general offering of overall cautionary advice.

The lack of reporting (or at least, no one being able to find it yet) in the county newspaper of an emergency landing of a plane in a field shouldn't have bearing on determining the veracity of the story?

Or should it at most be viewed as an indicator that the field aspect of the story may be a mistaken aspect of the retelling?

Or...?

It's meant as a general offering of cautionary advice, especially when evaluating the motives of a personal we don't care for. When trying to evaluate evidence, I try to eliminate, or at least minimize, mind reading. I have no insight into the thoughts of the editor in chief of the newspapers. So, I'm not willing to put much weight on my own wild-ass guess as to what would have gone in that issue of the newspaper. Drawing conclusions from absence of evidence is tricky. It can be perfectly valid, but basing conclusions on mind-reading someone else isn't, in my opinion, a valid way to go about it. I've seen lots of folks get burned in legal cases doing that.

As for the "field," the earliest account we have access to, which is the 2003 book quotation from the 1985 fireside, doesn't mention a field. He says that the pilot followed a highway until he could make an emergency landing. So, yeah, I think it's reasonable to chalk the "field" comment up to a change in the memory.

[Res Ipsa]

What does a "flameout" of a engine look like?

Like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axQ7A84fY-U

Clearly, the cockpit footage doesn't show the engine. It's not clear what the other footage is -- whether its footage of the incident or stock footage.

[Res Ipsa]

As described above, a "flame-out" just means that the flame in the combustion chambers of a jet engine goes out (extinguishes) and the engine loses thrust. There is no (sustained) flame out of the rear of the engine in this case, because there is no flame in the combustion chambers. Assuming the crew gets the engine started again, and were able to continue the flight and land safely, there would be no need for a report.

Nelson described nothing like a flameout, if I understand your description. He said burning fuel had been splattered all over.

Yep. I'm not claiming his memory of what happened is accurate in all respects.

[Gabriel]

I would suggest that simply asserting that he made it all up is a fairly extraordinary claim in and of itself. It should at least require a genuine effort to think through whether and how his story could accurately represent his memory. That requires approaching the incident with some curiosity and an open mind to try and understand it. And that's what I'm attempting to do.

I appreciate your clarification and I apologize if my previous post was a little on the snarky side.

[Gadianton]

Given 1976 was the heyday of SWK on "keeping a journal" there is no excuse for embellishment.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

RI,

I agree with your comments regarding memory. My wife and I pulled off the pct at Tehachapi pass because the trail conditions for the next 140 miles are too dangerous for us. We rented a car yesterday and are out joy riding today. We happened to drive around the Mojave airport where they do test pilot stuff and I remembered having been at the airport for some reason, I think it had something to do with the Army, but for the life of me I can't remember. And in fact, my brain created a possible scenario where I was there for some aircraft assault trng but that's not true. I was involved in that trng back in NC, not CA. Crazy. So, yeah. Memory is tricky at best.

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

I would suggest that simply asserting that he made it all up is a fairly extraordinary claim in and of itself. It should at least require a genuine effort to think through whether and how his story could accurately represent his memory. That requires approaching the incident with some curiosity and an open mind to try and understand it. And that's what I'm attempting to do.

I appreciate your clarification and I apologize if my previous post was a little on the snarky side.

Hey, thanks. No problem. I have a snarky side myself.

[Res Ipsa]

RI,

I agree with your comments regarding memory. My wife and I pulled off the pct at Tehachapi pass because the trail conditions for the next 140 miles are too dangerous for us. We rented a car yesterday and are out joy riding today. We happened to drive around the Mojave airport where they do test pilot stuff and I remembered having been at the airport for some reason, I think it had something to do with the Army, but for the life of me I can't remember. And in fact, my brain created a possible scenario where I was there for some aircraft assault trng but that's not true. I was involved in that trng back in NC, not CA. Crazy. So, yeah. Memory is tricky at best.

- Doc

Thanks, Doc. You heading north or south?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

RI,

We're bouncing around. We hiked from the southern border to mile 152, and then skipped the San Jacintos and the Angeles area due to snow and trail conditions. If we stick it out up here (we're hiking alt trails to account for the mileage) we'll hike the southern mountains minus trail closures. That's the intent, anyway.

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

RI,

We're bouncing around. We hiked from the southern border to mile 152, and then skipped the San Jacintos and the Angeles area due to snow and trail conditions. If we stick it out up here (we're hiking alt trails to account for the mileage) we'll hike the southern mountains minus trail closures. That's the intent, anyway.

- Doc

Very cool! Enjoy and stay safe.