Mormonism's Greatest Downfall.

[_William Schryver]

Ray:

I can think of few things more grievious than coaxing another man's wife or partner away. Yet this is what Joseph Smith and Brigham Young did - too many times to count.

Really?

“Too many times to count?”

How many fingers do people have in Oz?

… if one masturbates - he/she is "going to hell".

Really?

Chapter and verse?

I'm speechless.

Perhaps blind, as well?
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Ill-conceived:

Being a wife to a Mormon was like death - a sentence to hell for this life.

I’m glad you’re so averse to exaggeration, otherwise it would be difficult to believe anything you say.

This is what is meant by calling good evil and evil good. This is why I have little respect for guys like you, Will.

Again, I cite Joseph’s letter to “Miss Rigdon”:

Everything that God gives us is lawful and right, and it is proper that we should enjoy his gifts and blessings whenever and wherever he is disposed to bestow; but if we should seize upon those same blessings and enjoyments without law, without revelation, without commandment, those blessings and enjoyments would prove cursings and vexations in the end, and we should have to lie down in sorrow and wailings of everlasting regret. But in obedience there is joy and peace unspotted, unalloyed; and as God has designed our happiness, the happiness of all his creatures, he never has, he never will, institute an ordinance or give a commandment to his people that is not calculated in its nature to promote that happiness which he has designed, and which will not end in the greatest amount of good and glory to those who become the recipients of his law and ordinances.

And also from D&C 121:

Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them.

But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves.

In my experience, this is about as true as truth comes.
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And Ray again:

Sidney, for one, saw right through this charade.

Is that why he later decided that plural marriage was a divine commandment, and practiced it on his own?

Are we to conclude that old Sidney “fell” or “saw the light” in the end?

[_beastie]

Is that why he later decided that plural marriage was a divine commandment, and practiced it on his own?

Hmmm. It's been a while since I read his biography, but I don't recall this. Can you provide some references?

Certainly he was a religious fanatic his entire life, and always thought he should be leading the church, and disrupted his family with his visions, and had a small band of followers, but I really don't recall him practicing polygamy.

[_Ray A]

And Ray again:

Sidney, for one, saw right through this charade.

Is that why he later decided that plural marriage was a divine commandment, and practiced it on his own?

Are we to conclude that old Sidney “fell” or “saw the light” in the end?

There is no solid evidence that Rigdon ever practised polygamy (though such claims were made). You may be confusing him with Strang.

[_William Schryver]

Is that why he later decided that plural marriage was a divine commandment, and practiced it on his own?

Hmmm. It's been a while since I read his biography, but I don't recall this. Can you provide some references?

Certainly he was a religious fanatic his entire life, and always thought he should be leading the church, and disrupted his family with his visions, and had a small band of followers, but I really don't recall him practicing polygamy.

I guess you should check out Richard Van Wagoner's Rigdon bio. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but that's at least one place it can be found.

[_beastie]

I guess you should check out Richard Van Wagoner's Rigdon bio. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but that's at least one place it can be found.

I do have Van Wagoner's bio in front of me, and I can't find it.

[_beastie]

I also have Mormon Polygamy, but conveniently found this reference online:

Despite his long-standing opposition to polygamy, and published condemnations of the practice, Rigdon would be accused of introducing the system within his declining congregation. Apostle Parley P. Pratt turned Rigdon's accusations against him in a 1 July 1845 letter in the British Millennial Star, warning the Saints to "beware of seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils, as first introduced by John C. Bennett, under the name of 'spiritual wife' doctrine; and still agitated by the Pittsburg Seer, and his followers under the same title." Apostle John Taylor, editor of the 15 November 1844 Times and Seasons, published a letter from "An Old Man of Israel" which denounced the "sham quotations of Sidney Rigdon and his clique, under the 'dreadful splendor' of 'spiritual wifery' which is brought into the account as graciously as if the law of the land allowed a man a plurality of wives."

There is no solid evidence that Rigdon ever advocated polygamy.3 His son John maintained that Rigdon "took the ground no matter from what source it came whether from Prophet seer revelator or angels from heaven [that] it was a false doctrine and should be rejected" (Rigdon, "Life Story," 184). Yet accusations linking Rigdon to polygamy and insinuating that his daughter Nancy was a prostitute undermined his status as the only surviving member of the First Presidency. Few people took his leadership claims seriously; he never attained a large following. John Rigdon later noted that his father "was not a leader of men … the Mormon church … made no mistake in placing Brigham Young at the head of the church … if Sidney Rigdon had been chosen to take that position the church would have tottered and fallen" (ibid.).

http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/mp.htm

[_William Schryver]

I guess you should check out Richard Van Wagoner's Rigdon bio. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but that's at least one place it can be found.

I do have Van Wagoner's bio in front of me, and I can't find it.

I'll leave open the possibility I'm misremembering this, although I didn't think my early-onset dementia had reached those proportions.

I'll check the reference as soon as I can. If I'm mistaken, I'll stand corrected at that time. If not, I'll provide the reference. Fair enough?

[_karl61]

Parley P. Pratt wrote ""beware of seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" what was his doctrine when he courted married women?

[_beastie]

I'll check the reference as soon as I can. If I'm mistaken, I'll stand corrected at that time. If not, I'll provide the reference. Fair enough?

Sounds good.

[_Kevin Graham]

I do have Van Wagoner's bio in front of me, and I can't find it.

ROFL!

Gotta love that Schryver "research"!