Mormonism's Greatest Downfall.

[_Kishkumen]

Gotta love that Schryver "research"!

Clearly this guy's knowledge of Mormonism rates 10 out of 10.

[_Yong Xi]

Again, I cite Joseph’s letter to “Miss Rigdon”:

Everything that God gives us is lawful and right, and it is proper that we should enjoy his gifts and blessings whenever and wherever he is disposed to bestow; but if we should seize upon those same blessings and enjoyments without law, without revelation, without commandment, those blessings and enjoyments would prove cursings and vexations in the end, and we should have to lie down in sorrow and wailings of everlasting regret. But in obedience there is joy and peace unspotted, unalloyed; and as God has designed our happiness, the happiness of all his creatures, he never has, he never will, institute an ordinance or give a commandment to his people that is not calculated in its nature to promote that happiness which he has designed, and which will not end in the greatest amount of good and glory to those who become the recipients of his law and ordinances.

Who would have been on the receiving end of this had Joseph Smith been gay? What would the justification have been? The bonding of righteous priesthood holders to one another?

[_Kevin Graham]

The funniest thing about this is that if a critic had got something like this wrong, he would be trumpeting it as an example of outright ignorance at best, or blatant dishonesty at worst.

What does it say when their "10 out of 10" guy can't come across as even mildly informed on any aspect of Mormonism?

I'm fairly confident beastie would mop the floors with him in any kind of debate over Mormon history, because Will doesn't actually read books and he is so willing to humiliate himself. He's dumb, and proud of it! He reads reviews from FARMS. That's the extent of his "learning." When I first brought the KEP to his attention he immediately googled an outdated Nibley article and then proceeded to pretend the straw man arguments therein, somehow applied to anything I had said. He assured me that Nibley was the cutting edge on the subject and that he had not been dealt with. Notice of course that Will doesn't fall back on Nibley anymore. Ever.

[_William Schryver]

I'll check the reference as soon as I can. If I'm mistaken, I'll stand corrected at that time. If not, I'll provide the reference. Fair enough?

Sounds good.

I talked with someone who I knew to have the book handy. After reviewing together the pages that speak of Rigdon and polygamy, I think it would more accurate to say simply that there were people who charged Rigdon with some form of "spiritual wifery." In fairness to old Sid, those people were hostile witnesses, so, on second thought, I'll give Sid the benefit of the doubt. Was he accused of having dabbled in polygamy? Absolutely. But the evidence is no more conclusive than are the allegations that Joseph Smith had sex with other men's wives.
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Edit: Here is the passage I had recalled. Van Wagoner dismisses the claims, but there were sources from all the other "branches" of Mormonism who accused Rigdon of introducing, at least temporarily, a system of polygamy:

Harvey Whitlock continued the fabricated assault on Rigdon's reputation long afterwards by testifying in 1858 that after Nauvoo Rigdon had engaged in an "arrangement for temporary swapping wives."26 RLDS leader Isaac Sheen in 1864 commented erroneously that "Sidney is undoubtedly aware that if his elders 'discuss the doctrine of polygamy,' they will be put in remembrance of the detestable, adulterous system which he established in [Antrim Township] Pennsylvania about eighteen years ago."27 Peter Hess, a Strangite, recounted in a 14 December 1846 letter to James Strang a secondhand story that during a September 1846 conference in Antrim Township "Mr. Rigdon had introduced a System of Wifery or the Battle Axe System or free or common intercourse with the women."28

Richard S. Van Wagoner, Sidney Rigdon, p.373

[_Kevin Graham]

Glad to see Will figure out (albeit, not on his own) what has been common knowledge among the "critics" for quite some time.

But the evidence is no more conclusive than are the allegations that Joseph Smith had sex with other men's wives.

Actually there is more reason to believe Smith had sex with other women, than there is to believe Rigdon was a polygamist.

[_Ray A]

Edit: Here is the passage I had recalled. Van Wagoner dismisses the claims, but there were sources from all the other "branches" of Mormonism who accused Rigdon of introducing, at least temporarily, a system of polygamy:

Harvey Whitlock continued the fabricated assault on Rigdon's reputation long afterwards by testifying in 1858 that after Nauvoo Rigdon had engaged in an "arrangement for temporary swapping wives."26 RLDS leader Isaac Sheen in 1864 commented erroneously that "Sidney is undoubtedly aware that if his elders 'discuss the doctrine of polygamy,' they will be put in remembrance of the detestable, adulterous system which he established in [Antrim Township] Pennsylvania about eighteen years ago."27 Peter Hess, a Strangite, recounted in a 14 December 1846 letter to James Strang a secondhand story that during a September 1846 conference in Antrim Township "Mr. Rigdon had introduced a System of Wifery or the Battle Axe System or free or common intercourse with the women."28

Richard S. Van Wagoner, Sidney Rigdon, p.373

That's what I initially said, Will. I have the book too, and I didn't recall any proof of Rigdon being involved in polygamy. But it's easy to slip on things like this, even for writers. Especially in regard to footnotes.

[_bcspace]

Is polygamy. This is the one "doctrine" that marks Joseph Smith, in my opinion, as a probable imposter. It is not only contrary to societal values, but even to common sense. And according to the Book of Mormon, it is "an abomination". Why? Because it is manipulative, abusive and controlling, even when "consent" is given (bear Emma in mind here, and her "choices"). All I can say is that if the founder of Mormonism really did produce this book, the Book of Mormon, then he had a serious case of schizophrenia.

Since plural marriage is seen to be God authorized at various times in the scriptures, including the Book of Mormon (Jacob 2:30) it is major proof that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.

If one is going to claim the Biblical restoration of all things, it must include plural marriage.

[_Inconceivable]

Being a wife to a (polygamous) Mormon was like death - a sentence to hell for this life.

I’m glad you’re so averse to exaggeration, otherwise it would be difficult to believe anything you say.

So Will,

Did you ask your wife?

Or is an opinion only valid in the Mormon church if it has a penis attached to it?

[_bcspace]

Or is an opinion only valid in the Mormon church if it has a penis attached to it?

Yet another example of the sex obsessed criticism of the Church.

[_Ray A]

Since plural marriage is seen to be God authorized at various times in the scriptures, including the Book of Mormon (Jacob 2:30) it is major proof that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.

If one is going to claim the Biblical restoration of all things, it must include plural marriage.

Did Christ teach or practice plural marriage?