KimberlyAnn wrote:Why should one stop masturbating? Who cares? If it's not out of control, why does it matter? Who's business it is anyway? Good grief.
It's just a non-issue.
Get a grip.
KA
But do you have any helpful suggestions on how not to get a grip? I know I'll regret posting this later.
Yay!!
I put that there purposefully hoping some clever person would pick up on it, lol! Of course that clever person would be you. :)
And I bet you don't regret it a bit. We should be partners in crime more often.
Doctor Scratch wrote:It seems to me that if the Brethren truly cared about this so-called "self mastery," then they would be applying the term in a much more holistic way. I mean, think about it: the apologists routinely speak of how they are "addicted" to reading anti-Mormon literature, and to committing all kinds of atrocities on the messageboards. And these are high-ranking people! If these high-profile apologists are flagrantly getting away with this stuff, then I think it's safe to say that Heavenly Father doesn't really care about wanking. If "self mastery" were truly a doctrinal concern within the upper echelons of the Church, then I think we could comfortably expect the apologists to be crapping themselves in deep, existential fear of damnation on account of their "addictions."
Well spoken, Doctor. I think it is fairly clear that the obsession with sexuality has much to do with social control. After all, it's not just about the wanking, it's also necking, petting, oral sex with a married partner; in polygamy days it was also about whom one could marry or not. Indeed, the preoccupation with controlling masturbation and the sexual lives of married couples was something rarely heard of in the days when the sexual lives of members were controlled via polygamy. Now that polygamy is no longer available as a tool to control, they have to turn to other sensitive sexual issues. I believe it is all about creating guilt in order to create power over the "guilty." My guess is that most male apologists are suffering from this guilt and use online apologetics as a way to channel away from more lascivious activities. It's about replacing l-wanky with l-skinny.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
bcspace wrote:It's statements like these that make me downgrade my opinion of your honesty. No offense, but even though I realize that there are a few crackpot bishop's out there, it's not the Church I am familiar with. And we're talking a wide range of geographical experience (CA, UT, Texas, etc.) and a pretty large span of years of cognizance on these issues (30+ years).
And it is statements like you make, that you were never ever asked, that make me question your honesty. Further, your claim that you have been all over the place and never heard of questions about masturbation being asked save by a few crackpot bishops lends to further reasons to doubt your credibility.
My life wouldn't be complete if you didn't think I was a liar. It really did happen, in a BYU ward in 1987. And oddly enough, I've lived in CA, UT, and Texas too.
But hell, I'm just a big fat liar. No offense.
Runtu, your experience is more the norm. Many bishops still ask about masturbation. It still can delay a mission though not necessarily prohibit one. The Strength of Youth Manual that bishops often use in youth interviews alludes to masturbation.
So BC asks what advice should be given? EDITED OUT DUE TO POTENTIAL CONFLICT AND CONFIDENCE BREACH: Edit by Jason B
Last edited by Lem on Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I got asked after I got married in a temple recommend interview. Our bishop gave a "special" priesthood talk about the evils of masturbation and lingerie.
It's statements like these that make me downgrade my opinion of your honesty. No offense, but even though I realize that there are a few crackpot bishop's out there, it's not the Church I am familiar with. And we're talking a wide range of geographical experience (CA, UT, Texas, etc.) and a pretty large span of years of cognizance on these issues (30+ years).
Did your bishop give you the "don't engage in oral sex" talk? My bride-to-be and I got it from her bishop.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Runtu wrote: Our bishop gave a "special" priesthood talk about the evils of masturbation and lingerie.
Lingerie? What could be evil about lingerie????
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
bcspace wrote:Critics, your challenge is to provide better and more realistic advice than Petersen, Packer, or your favorite LDS bogeyman on how to stop masturbating while still remaining true to LDS doctrine. If you can't, your criticism of the advice is not valid and out of context.
Does this "doctrine" include nocturnal emissions (often accompanied by sex dreams)?
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
I have never, ever been asked about masturbation in an interview. Not growing up, not on my mission, and not in a temple recommend interview. It just never came up. So, I don't doubt that BC was never asked about it.
I think a don't ask, don't tell policy would be best. In fact, as my kids get older I am contemplating telling my Bishop that it is NOT okay for him to specifically ask my kids about it or about anything more than the standard "are you living the law of chastity" question. I'm just a little nervous of the negative reprecussions of such a demand.
bcspace wrote: So what's your better advice? You can't go against the doctrine of the self mastery of all your passions, so what would you advise?
I would advise a person to leave a dogmatic religion that teaches stupid things like "masturbation is bad, mmmkay?" There's no better advice than that.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
dblagent007 wrote:I have never, ever been asked about masturbation in an interview. Not growing up, not on my mission, and not in a temple recommend interview. It just never came up. So, I don't doubt that BC was never asked about it.
It never ceases to amaze me how apologists somehow manage to be the exception to certain sensitive norms in the LDS experience. If it could be a target of criticism, the apologist conveniently has never heard of it, never seen it, or never personally experienced it. Something is definitely rotten in Denmark.
As an apologetic tactic, surely this ranks up there with "that's not doctrine!"
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
