Cult? Or not?

[_bcspace]

There are several definitions of the word "cult" that virtually all churches fit.

Well then... what does that say about the nature of religion in general?

Not good

How so? Have you read the definitions?

[_why me]

Here we go again with the cult gag. My gosh, it seems that I have to read such items almost daily. No, the LDS church is not a cult. But if it makes the critics happy to repeat it over and over again, then so fine.

But then, Jesus was a cult figure also. And most christian religions place Jesus Christ in the center of their cult-like worship. And Paul...was he a cult figure? And what about Buddha?

[_ktallamigo]

How so? Have you read the definitions?

Definitions of cult on the Web:

followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
fad: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season"
followers of an unorthodox, extremist, or false religion or sect who often live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader
a religion or sect that is generally considered to be unorthodox, extremist, or false; "it was a Satanic cult"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Okay, I Googled "cult" on the web.

"followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices"

I agree that most religions would fit the above definition of "cult." It is very general.

followers of an unorthodox, extremist, or false religion or sect who often live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader

Most religions do not fit the above definition of a cult.

a religion or sect that is generally considered to be unorthodox, extremist, or false; "it was a Satanic cult"

Most mainstream religions do not fit the above definition of cult.


But (and this is my opinion) most religions tend to control people in some form or another - mostly by encouraging them to be good and do good through guilt and fear. I don't think they trust people to be good on their own -- they have to scare us with threats of hell and damnation.

[_ktallamigo]

Here we go again with the cult gag. My gosh, it seems that I have to read such items almost daily. No, the LDS church is not a cult. But if it makes the critics happy to repeat it over and over again, then so fine.

But then, Jesus was a cult figure also. And most christian religions place Jesus Christ in the center of their cult-like worship. And Paul...was he a cult figure? And what about Buddha?

Did you read the article in the OP? Mormonism fits almost every one of the criteria.

There are many cults and each are unique in their own way.

[_moksha]

I've never really been convinced that the church is a cult.

There are several definitions of the word "cult" that virtually all churches fit.

If by some definitions, the terms cult and church can be used interchangeably, then a cult becomes less ominous.

[_truth dancer]

Cult=small religion
Religion=large cult



Actually, I see this not as a black and white issue but rather numerous shades of gray. At one end of a spectrum would be total freedom of belief; one free from any coercion, manipulation, brainwashing or indoctrination, at the other end are the extreme True Believers we often see in the more well known cults and fundamental religions.

I put the FLDS about a ten, the mainstream LDS church about a seven or eight.

~td~

[_Casslanpepci]

The LDS Church is not a cult, but to be referred to as a cult keeps us in good company with the early Christians. The following [abridged] is taken from a work that I may [or may not] try and get published in the future. The majority of the scriptures are in full rather than as a reference.

The Cult Information Centre defines a cult as follows:

“A cult uses mind control techniques to recruit and maintain membership, and forms an elitist totalitarian society (the leader is usually self-appointed and answers to nobody)”. The Moonies, Peoples Temple, Branch Davidians, and The Family are four such groups who practice such techniques. “Most cults are in fact registered as charities or religious organisations, but the wealth generated benefits neither the cult members, nor society.
Cults such as the Moonies “run so called self improvement courses” where victims are deprived of all sense of time so they become disorientated. Questions are banned, which also helps confuse the mind. Other methods include hypnosis. peer-group pressure, removal of privacy, sleep deprivation, diet control, induced guilt and fear, confession and financial commitment (converts are expect to give all their money and possessions to the cult). “Most victims come from good homes and are well educated, open-minded and idealistic. They can be any age (though most tend to be young people), and have a strong faith.” Motives vary. Some leaders may simply be laughing all the way to the bank. Others spend years programming members to see them as god and come to believe it themselves. Some are metally ill and believe they are a god from the start”. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is no way in this catagory.

A well known non-Mormon of the 1980's was Walter Martin, a man who spent many years engaged in preaching and writing against those who did not believe as he did, listed ten characteristics common to cults which he believed to be counterfeit Christianity. (The New Cults, Regal Books, 1980). These points he has applied to all the fringe religions, including the Latter-day Saints. But these same points, unfortunately, can also be applied to the early Christian Church, as well as most of the mainline denominations, when they, too, were in their infancy. So I shall use his ten question points, to examin early Christianity, as he used it to describe "the Mormons" in 5 separate posts, since it is rather long.

1. Cults, new as well as old, are usually started by strong and dynamic leaders who are in complete control of their followers.”
Our Lord Jesus Christ must certainly be reckoned a strong an dynamic leader. One can ask whether there is any doubt that Jesus was in complete control of his followers, or that his disciples would have done anything for him, even to the point of giving up their own lives? Jesus in fact asked his followers to give up everything:

“Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life,” (Matt 19:27-29)

Jesus also sometimes refused permission to his disciples to even carry out family obligations:

“And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow theewhithersoever thou goest.
And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said , Lord suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but first let me go bid them farewell which are at home at my house.
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back is fit for the kingdom of God.” (Luke 9:57-62)

So it begs the question was early Christianity a cult because Jesus was a strong dynamic leader in complete control of his followers?

2. “All cults possess some Scripture that is either added to or which replaces the Bible
as God’s Word.
It cannot be denied that the major claim of the the early Christian church was that of the new covenant or the ‘Good News’. The New Testament, which records this, superceded the old covenant of the law of Moses, the Old Testament which records it:

"For if the first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second." (Herbrews 8:7 (se also 8-13)).

The Jews, of course accept what we call the Old Testament as scripture. Christians added additional writings which they claimed as scripture eventually ending up with four Gospels, the Book of Acts, twenty-one Epistles, and the Apocalypse (though some editions of the Bible have more or less than these). The Jews, of course were just as incensed at these ‘spurious’ additions to God’s Word as the anti-Mormons are at the Book of Mormon today. Two “orthodox” churches also use additional books to the Holy Bible. The Catholic church uses The Missal almost exclusively, [at least they did back in the 70's when I was studing with them] while the Church of England uses The Book of Common Prayer alongside the Bible. So since the early Christians added books to the previously accepted canon of Scripture, as well as insisting that the New Testament fulfilled and superceded the Old Testament, then, using the criteria of Walter Martin, early Christianity was a cult!

[_Casslanpepci]

3. “The new cults have rigid standards for membership and accept no members who will not become integrally involved in the group.”
Jesus Said:

“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to
destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be
that find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

The apostle Paul stated to the Christians at Corinth that:

“But now I have written unto younot to keep company, if any man that is called a brother
be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner;
with such an one no not to eat.
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.”(1 Corinthians 5:11,13).

From that statement alone, it would appear that the condidtions for fellowship were strict. Paul also went on to say that:

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived
neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves
with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extornioners shall inherit
the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6: 9-10)

Additionally, if insisting that members integrally involved is a characteristic of a cult, then what are we to do with the following statement of Paul again made to the Corinthian Christians:

“Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fwllowship hath
righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkeness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that
believeth with an infidel?
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate saith the Lord, and touch not the
unclean thing; and I will receive you.” (2 Corinthians 6: 14-15, 17).

It is hard to understand how someone like Walter Martin, who claimed to be a scholar of the New Testament could believe that Jesus did not require a high standard of righteousness from his followers. So because early Christianity demanded high standards, as well as a total committment, it, too, using Martin’s criteria must have begun as a cult!

4. “Cultist often become members of one cult after membership in one or more cults.”
It is recorded in John that two followers of John the Baptist became diciples of Jesus:

"Again the next day after John stood, and two of his dicisples;
And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the
Lamb of God!
And the two disciples heard him speak, and they
followed Jesus." (John 1:35-37)

It is also logical to assume that others of John’s disciples also followed Jesus. So according to the reasoning of Walter Martin, this change of affliation would indicate that Andrew and his companion were cultists!

[_Casslanpepci]

5. “The new cults are actively evangelistic and spend much of their time in proselytizing new converts.”

Jesus told his disciples that they were to:

“Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father
and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:19-20).

This is exactly what they did, as recorded in the book of Acts. Even Paul spent much of his time proselytizing new converts. So, again, under this definition put forward by Walter Martin, the early church was a cult.

6. “Often we find that the leaders or officials of the new cults are not professional clergymen.”

It is recorded in the Book of Acts that the Jewish High Priests - Annas, Caiaphas, - and the Sadducees noticed this. It says in Acts 4:

“Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were
unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of
them, that they had been with Jesus. (Acts 4:13)

Jesus, himself was a carpenter, while the profession of, for example, Peter, James and John were fishermen, Matthew a tax collector and Paul a tent maker. So because the Apostles were not “trained for the ministry” but were ignorant and unlearned, then early Chriatianity, according to Walter Martin, was a cult!

[_Casslanpepci]

7. “All the new cults have a system of doctrine and practice which is in some state of flux.”
One of the meanings of the world Flux is “continuous change.”[Concise Dictionary,White House Smith]. The Apostles, for example, were taught by Jesus during his forty day ministry after his resurrection, things that they had not known during the mortal minsitry of Jesus.

“To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion, by many infalible proofs,
being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:” (Acts 1:3)

And, again, some time later Peter received a revelation to the effect that the Gentiles, were also to be partakers of the Gospel (see Acts Chapter 10). Further, the New Testament church later held a council to decide the issue of whether Gentiles needed to be circumsized (Acts 15). And, of course, during the days of the early church, after the times of the apostles, many councils were held to determine or clarify its policies and doctrines, from Nicaea to various councils (or synods) of today. Non biblical as well as biblical questions were settled at these councils, and in some cases today, to apease the people in this day and age. So, again, the question was that early Christianity was in a state of flux, because its early leaders continued to receive revelation after Jesus had ascended to Heaven; or because the early church was still in the process of reconciling the relationship between the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost more than three centuries after the death of Jesus; or because some Christian churches today held councils and decided to have women priests, for example as religious leaders.

8. “In Harmony with Christian theology, the new cults all believe that there is continual, ongoing communication from God. However, the cults differ from the biblical Christian church in believing that their new “revelation” can contradict and even at times supercede God’s first revelation, the Bible.”

“The Bible clearly shows that God has often given one commandment at one time, then later given another to replace it with. For example:

“And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into
the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which
I will tell thee of.”

“And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him; for now I
know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not within thy son, thine only son from me.”(Genesis 2:2, 12)

That God used his perogative to command and then revoke is best seen in the following scriptures:

“And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their
generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, the soul shall
be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:7, 14)

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled
again with the yoke of bondage.
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to the
whole law.
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law;
ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 17:1-4)

The Law of Moses was superceded by later revelation (see also Galatians 3:24-29; Hebrews 8:7-13; 10:8-9). The early Christians believed then, that although God had spoken in times past, and had given them His Words through his prophets, he now spoke to them again, and had given new revelations that had superceded the ones he first gave. According to Walter Martin, then, the contridiction of revelation given previously, by new revelation, is the sign of a cult.