Fake Book of Mormon Geography -- holes in the script

[Shulem]

HOLD THE PRESS!

I've been busy taking my posts from this thread and creating a new thread up in the CELESTIAL board. I've dressed up some of my posts and reworded them to satisfy celestial requirements and perhaps lure a few suckers to the board to discuss the matter. Thanks to those who gave input in this thread because that helped better shape the new one -- a presentation that challenges the very fabric of the Book of Mormon and placed it in a fairytale setting.

This thread will be the gold standard when it comes to Nephi's temple being imitated after the order of Solomon's temple. Feel free to share the link with your faithful family and friends.

“I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon”

Do enjoy!

[huckelberry]

Shulem, you have presented you case clearly.I think there are a lot of problems with this time period in the Book of Mormon. If I were a believer I would think the fallowing. The wording about the relationship of Nephi and Solomons temples is from an editor(Mormon or Moroni) who was completely ignorant of the material construction and size of either of these temples. The actual Nephi temple would have been built with wood poles and thatch upon an earthen foundation.

It would be a believable story had Nephi mentioned building a temple constructed in the form and material you mentioned above. But according to the beginning of the story, Nephi was from Jerusalem, and must have made pilgrimages to the temple as a young man. He would have been familiar with the stone structure but far less familiar with the interior because that was a secure area and restricted.

It's hard to imagine Nephi's words being edited by Mormon or Moroni when he's speaking in the first person repeatedly throughout his writings:

"This is according to the account of Nephi; or in other words, I, Nephi, wrote this record."

Shulem, you are lacking the push back of an actual Book of Mormon believer so I thought to be a bit of a temporary stand in. I am following at least roughly the point of view I understood from Brent Gardner. He proposed that the editing of the books is extensive. The phrase, I Nephi, maintains the idea that the record was made by Nephi but rewriting, condensing was extensive. The big problem with the record is that it leaves out all the information about the relationship with those thousands of Indians living in the area. Nothing in the story. Mr Gardner proposes that the whole book has been edited into a story concerned with only limited themes. The intertwining themes of faith and faithlessness is told leaving out and historic details of political relations with the Indians. With rewriting on this scale it is entirely believable that the relationship of actual temple physical construction is long lost. It would have been lost like the swords build in the manner of Laban sword actually turned into wood clubs with flint blades.

I suspect you will not buy into the idea of this large of a rewrite of actual historical records by Mormon and Moroni and perhaps earlier leaders. I think the theory is the only way to see the Book of Mormon as a historical record. I might be able to swallow the temple building matter. I do not know how I would ever swallow the disappearance of all those Indians from the story. How in the world did Nephi and family become the political head of a strong independent group?

[Shulem]

huckelberry,

The buck stops with Smith. He's the author of the Book of Mormon. He translated dictated the stories while his head was buried in a hat and Cowdery wrote down what he said, word by word, phrase by phrase, and sentence by sentence -- explaining exactly what was coming out of Smith's creative mind. Forget the gold plates! Forget ancient authors! It was Smith doing the thinking and it was Smith doing the talking. The bottom line is that it was Smith doing all of the talking, all the interpreting, and explaining everything exactly how he wanted it explained. He spoke directly for all of the following characters in his book:

I, Nephi (1 Nephi 1:1)
I, Jacob (Jacob 7:3)
I, Enos (Enos 1:1)
I, Jarom (Jarom 1:1)
I, Omni (Omni 1:1)
I, Amaron (Omni 1:4)
I, Chemish (Omni 1:4)
I, Abinadom (Omni 1:10)
I, Amaleki (Omni 1:23)
I, Alma (Alma 5:5)
I, Helaman (Alma 57:36)
I, Mormon (The Book of Mormon 1:1)
I, Moroni (Moroni 7:7)

Smith did the speaking for Nephi and Mormon and every single character speaking in *his* book.

Now, in considering the far-out idea that Nephi had help from others in building his temple that aren't mentioned in his story account? Is this the theory of the Missing Temple Builders?



Here is exactly how the story went down according to Nephi (THROUGH JOSEPH SMITH), not Brant Gardner:

16 And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon

17 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did cause my people to be industrious, and to labor with their hands.

18 And it came to pass that they would that I should be their king. But I, Nephi, was desirous that they should have no king

23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing.

26 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did consecrate Jacob and Joseph, that they should be priests

28 And thirty years had passed away from the time we left Jerusalem.

29 And I, Nephi, had kept the records upon my plates, which I had made, of my people thus far.

34 And it sufficeth me to say that forty years had passed away, and we had already had wars and contentions with our brethren.

1 For behold, it came to pass that fifty and five years had passed away from the time that Lehi left Jerusalem; wherefore, Nephi gave me, Jacob, a commandment concerning the small plates, upon which these things are engraven.

2 . . . . history of this people which are called the people of Nephi.

9 Now Nephi began to be old, and he saw that he must soon die; wherefore, he anointed a man to be a king and a ruler over his people now, according to the reigns of the kings.

13 Now the people which were not Lamanites were Nephites; nevertheless, they were called Nephites, Jacobites, Josephites, Zoramites, Lamanites, Lemuelites, and Ishmaelites.

The story and narrative lends no credence to a theory of Missing Temple Builders. It was the family of Lehi and Ishmael, along with Zoram, that came across the ocean on the ship built by Nephi. There wasn't anyone else other than the people of Nephi to help build the temple of Nephi. The Nephites came across another peoples later when they left the land of Nephi and discovered the people of Zarahemla, much later.

[huckelberry]

Shulem, I do not recall any missing Temple Builders. Are you pursuing a new subject?.

[Shulem]

Shulem, I do not recall any missing Temple Builders. Are you pursuing a new subject?.

I'm coming up with a new theory for Book of Mormon defenders to be able to fall back on. Perhaps, it's plausible, that Nephi was greeted by a large contingency of natives already on the land that had come over from another time and they joined with Nephi in assisting with the temple construction. This just wasn't recorded because that information is in the lost 116 pages and didn't need to be retold in our current version of the Book of Mormon. Critics can't prove that Nephi didn't have native helpers. They could have brought their tools and all their supplies and helped with the temple project and then go back to their own lands.

There. You see, the Book of Mormon really is true.

[huckelberry]

Shulem, Ok I see your point. If we are going to stretch we might exercise to expand our stretching.

[huckelberry]

Shulem, Ok I see your point. If we are going to stretch we might exercise to expand our stretching.

The crowd came out from the city to greet Nephi and exclaimed," well hello stranger , how do you do, we see by your appearance that you come from our homeland, our sunny homeland on the east Mediterranean sea." "Together we will make you leader and build a temple like Solomon's".

[Shulem]

The crowd came out from the city and exclaimed," well hello stranger , how do you do, we see by your appearance that you come from our homeland, our sunny homeland on the east Mediterranean sea." "Together we will make you leader and build a temple like Solomon's".

The Church attempts to depict Nephi's era as if it was a great civilization whereby a stone temple like Solomon's was par for the course. Mormons love to embellish and make things up in order to make Smith's story seem like a reality. Look at the artwork below depicting Nephi teaching, presumably in the temple that was constructed like Solomon's temple -- and look at those stone columns! There is no way that Nephi cut hewn blocks to raise columns and lintels of that magnitude. It's impossible. This is the kind of garbage the Mormons are pushing in trying to justify the silly lies of Smith's novel. Oh, that must be Nephi and Sam seated behind their younger brother, Jacob as he preaches over a pulpit that must weigh at least 2,500 lbs.


"Jacob warns the people of their wickedness"

[Shulem]

Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, former Professor of Old Testament Languages and Literature at Brigham Young University, taught that Nephi constructed his temple after the plan of Solomon’s Temple and that Nephi built it by the book, the brass plates.

The Book of Mormon makes clear that the Nephites, another branch of Hebrew people, knew the uses of temples and built a number of them upon this continent. Apparently the first temple was that constructed by Nephi after he and his followers had separated themselves from their unrighteous brethren. It was built after the plan of Solomon’s Temple, the details of which could be learned from the brass plates.

These things were taught at BYU and printed in the official Church magazine to instruct Latter-day Saints in general.

1. Nephi’s temple was built after the plan of Solomon’s Temple
2. Details of temple construction could be learned from the brass plates

[Shulem]

Smith's use or terminology of "Temple of Solomon" and "Solomon’s temple" in the Book of Mormon is an anachronism. It doesn't belong in the Book of Mormon. Smith used those terms because he didn't know that the First Temple would not be called after a man but after the LORD. Also, a real Nephi would never have called the Jerusalem temple (the only one he ever knew) after a man's name because it was the LORD'S house, NOT Solomon's who lived hundreds of years before his time.

If the Book of Mormon really were authentic it would read as follows:

And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of JERUSALEM save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto the LORD'S house. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of JERUSALEM; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine.

For a full treatment of this anachronism refer to:

“Temple of Solomon”: Two Problems for a Hebraic Book of Mormon