Mormonism's Greatest Downfall.

[_why me]

Hi Why Me,

But the wives of Joseph Smith paint a different picture and there are more of them. It seems that Joseph Smith was a good man who was missed by them when he was murdered. I still haven't heard a terrible word said of Joseph Smith by any of these women. If true, that does say a lot about their relationship.

Ever hear the FLDS girls and women talk about Warren Jeffs?

See those little twelve and thirteen year old girls talk about their husband?

You can make comparisons after comparisons. It really proves nothing. One must also look a little deeper than the surface comparison. You attempt to make an illogical leap with a surface comparison.

For example: Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. Some of the most evilest men in the south also owned slaves. Thus, Thomas Jefferson was an evil man.

See my point. It is a mistake that is often done by LDS critics: illogical deductions based on false comparisons.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Why Me,

No the comparison holds...

Typically, the polygamous wives of powerful cult leaders love their master/husband/prophet.

Of COURSE they do. They wouldn't have joined the harem unless they believed they were acting in accord with God's will.

It makes no difference if the leader is Joseph Smith, Koresh, Jeff's, the dynamic is exactly the same.

[_rcrocket]

Ray and Danna;

I want to respond to your posts but I can't figure out entirely where you are pulling your material from, and what is original material, secondary material and secondary material with commentary. I know this isn't an academic journal where you have to carefully cite your material, but for each of your last posts perhaps you could indulge me with cites to your quoted material.

rcrocket

Sorry about that. You can find the original article and more here at Uncle Dale's:
http://sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/UK/miscUK01.htm#080042
I have edited my original post to add the link.

The cite is confused, in the sense that the "notes" do not appear in the original publication -- an odd way to present evidence.

Nonetheless, as I have pointed out in the past, the Brotherton affidavit is highly suspect, as it was prepared at John C. Bennett's request and probably drafted by him. (Saintly Scoundrel, p. 105.) He reproduced it at City of the Saints, p. 236, and it the affidavit said: "you are at liberty to make what use of them you may think best." But the affidavit is written in John C. Bennett's writing style.

When we are looking for indicia of the misdemeanors of a despised religion, that which is contained in the four corners of an apostate is to be immediately distrusted -- a sort of axiom which applies to Origen's and Tertulllian's descriptions of the pagans.

[_why me]

Hi Why Me,

No the comparison holds...

Typically, the polygamous wives of powerful cult leaders love their master/husband/prophet.

Of COURSE they do. They wouldn't have joined the harem unless they believed they were acting in accord with God's will.

It makes no difference if the leader is Joseph Smith, Koresh, Jeff's, the dynamic is exactly the same.

You are still doing it, making the illogical leap. For example comparing the dynamics of Joseph Smith, Jeffs and Koresh. And yet, I see no comparison except on the surface. One must have proof that Joseph Smith was an abuser and the best spokespeople for this would have been the wives especially after he was murdered. But...if it makes you feel better, then you can believe your comparisons. I know that if I were a critic I would do the same. Why not...it will always get some kudos from the other critics on the board.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Why Me,

No the comparison holds...

Typically, the polygamous wives of powerful cult leaders love their master/husband/prophet.

Of COURSE they do. They wouldn't have joined the harem unless they believed they were acting in accord with God's will.

It makes no difference if the leader is Joseph Smith, Koresh, Jeff's, the dynamic is exactly the same.

You are still doing it, making the illogical leap. For example comparing the dynamics of Joseph Smith, Jeffs and Koresh. And yet, I see no comparison except on the surface. One must have proof that Joseph Smith was an abuser and the best spokespeople for this would have been the wives especially after he was murdered. But...if it makes you feel better, then you can believe your comparisons. I know that if I were a critic I would do the same. Why not...it will always get some kudos from the other critics on the board.

Why me... my comparison concerns girls and women who attach themselves polygamously to powerful religious/cult leaders.

My point stands, it is extremely rare a polygamous wife/concubine will not speak highly of her powerful husband/master/prophet.

You suggest there is something special about Joseph Smith because his "wives" never spoke negatively about him, I am telling you that this behavior found in the girls and women attached to cult/religious leaders is common; the norm, consistent across cults and religions.

See the problem is, many believers of various religions and cults want to treat their leader differently than everyone else, when in fact there is little difference. Most of these powerful men claim to be a representative of the Divine, called, chosen, asked to engage in sex with multiple women. Joseph Smith was not the first powerful leader to call this play.

The behavior that most find disgusting in others gets rationalized away in their own leader.

There is nothing superficial about this Why Me, it is what it is.

~td~

[_Mary]

Why me, just out of interest, did you read Beastie's post on Wayne Bent, particularly with regard to the young girls' attitudes towards having sex with a man whom they believed was almost like a God.

KING: ...charged with sex crimes against children. His followers standing by the man who calls himself a messiah. His son defending shocking behavior that put his father behind bars. He wants to explain it all. And he'll have the chance...a self-proclaimed messiah was in court today facing criminal sex charges. We're going to look at the Lord of Righteousness Church - cult or not a cult?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I took off my clothes and I laid naked on his bed. And he just held me. And it was like a whole new picture opened up to me of God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This needed to be literally physically naked. And so he took me, we went to the bedroom and laid down, and he held me, and some how, it was like, all of heaven was open to me. Somehow, I started to see God. Well, somehow, it was the son of God holding me. And so, I'm laying there, and it's like - for the first time, I was like, God loves me. He loves me.

Why me can't you see what is going on here? Do you think that some of the women who were bedded by Joseph felt much different? Look at their (Wayne's followers) attitude to their sexual experience, to how it made them feel to be having sex with a man of God. It's quite a trip don't you think, both for the man and for the women involved.

I'm puzzled as to why you can't see it.

[_harmony]

I'm puzzled as to why you can't see it.

Willful determined blindness is completely understandable, when the only other option is to see Joseph's feet of clay. There are some among us who simply cannot, will not see his feet of clay.

Fanny = 1833.
Restoration of the sealing power = 1836.

Joseph was clay from his feet to his forehead, at least.

[_Kishkumen]

Fanny = 1833.

You think Fanny was the first?

[_harmony]

Fanny = 1833.

You think Fanny was the first?

Fanny was the first clearly documented affair, and no apologist can get around her.

[_Kishkumen]

Fanny was the first clearly documented affair, and no apologist can get around her.

Yeah, well, I think it will be established in the not-too-distant future that he was having affairs as early as the late 1820s. My guess is that he got these habits from Joe Sr.