Recent Mesoamerican Findings

[_rcrocket]

Some cool recent information about horses and metal in Meso America:

Recent MesoAmerican horse finds:


From C. Ray, Pre-Columbian Horses from Yucatan, The Journal of Mammalogy, Vol 38, No 2, p. 278 (1957, I believe; I have the entire article but not the face page of the volume):

"It is now possible to report horse remains of probable pre-Columbian aage from a locality in Yucatan."

"Although the teeth and bones were in many cases heavily encrusted in lime, pottery occurred throughout the deposits and two foot bones present in the top of two layers in which horse remains occurred were identified as those of domestic ca[rest of the word cut off in copying]."

The author also reports horse finds in the cenotes (these are the natural cisterns in which the Mayans threw their sacrifices).

A Mayan guide identifies a horse on a cenote wall in the Yucatan in Deep Inside the Yucatan, The New York Times, Feb. 23, 2007. "In the depths of a limestone cavern, near a doorway to the Maya underworld, Filomeno Tomay took out a flashlight and held it up to the cave wall. ''Es un caballo,'' he said softly. (''This is a horse.'') Mr. Tomay, a stout 66-year-old Maya guide, stood deep inside Cenote Dzitnup, wielding a yellow beam for tourists to reveal a gestalt of conjured shapes on a wall of burled stone."


Metal:

Achaeologist (and Tennessee Supreme Court Justice) John Haywood, in Natural History and Aboriginal History of Tennessee reports from finds in Tennessee valley mounds, an iron sword: "There were also found pieces of iron from two to four feet long, straight and uncurved, the back of the blade flat, and one-half or three-quarters of an inch wide near the handle, regularly bevelled on both sides to the edge . . . etc." (P. 306.)

In the famous Marietta (Ohio) mound were found in 1819 "sword belts or a buckler composed of copper.oval, and with a thick plate of silver." (P. 324.) "Two or three pieces of a copper tube were also found, filled with rust. These compose the lower end of the scabbard, near the point of the sword."


Semitic Influence:

Cyrus Gordon's book, "Before Columbus," spends an entire volume summarizes a lifetime of research into the connection between Semitic cultures and MesoAmerica. He is a linguist and bases many of his conclusions upon language similarities. He was a highly respected professor at Brandeis; here are some more references to his scholarship and findings. Herschel Shanks, Against the Tide: An Interview with Maverick Scholar Cyrus Gordon, BAR 26:06 (Nov/Dec. 2000); Herschel Shanks, "Danaans & Danites" BAR 2:02 (Jun. 1976); "In America, Biblical Archaelogy Was -- And Still Is -- largely a Protestant Affair," (BAR 8:03, May 1982); BAR invited Gordon to debate Cross. Cross, Phoenicians in Brazil?" BAR 5:01, Jan/Feb 1979. His Mesoamerican work has been reviewed in the Atlantic, as well as in Carleton S. Coon, The American Historical Review, (June 1975); Eugene J. Fisher, "East and West," The Biblical Archaeologist, (Spring 1980); Bernard Ortiz de Montellano, "The Were NOT Here before Columbus: Afrocentric Hyperdiffusionsim in the 1990s", Ethnohistory, (Spring 1997); George Carter, "The Quest for America," Geographical Review (Jan 1973); Nl. Rosenstein, "How Wide the Biblical World" The Biblical Archaeologist (Spring 1978).

[_beastie]

You're like two year old child screaming "MOMMY LOOK AT ME".

[_rcrocket]

Haywood's book is pretty interesting. A treasure trove of finds from the 18th century in the Ohio and Tennessee Valleys. He was a leading archeologist of the day. I'll try and dig out, so the speak, some more interesting quotes.

You're like two year old child screaming "MOMMY LOOK AT ME".

I'm just looking for one more opportunity to show that you are the Will Schryver of the opposition. You just can't resist an insult and a personal attack at every post.

[_beastie]

I'm just looking for one more opportunity to show that you are the Will Schryver of the opposition. You just can't resist an insult and a personal attack at every post.

Nonsense. You started a thread about an issue that I dealt with more than adequately long ago for no other reason than to get my attention.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Robert,

You'll want to look at beastie's website www.mormonmesoamerica.com, where the citations you provide are dealt with more than adequately. Cheers,

-Chris

[_karl61]

The real issue is when he gives that information to the youth of the Church.

[_karl61]

Crockett wrote:

Recent MesoAmerican horse finds:


From C. Ray, Pre-Columbian Horses from Yucatan, The Journal of Mammalogy, Vol 38, No 2, p. 278 (1957, I believe; I have the entire article but not the face page of the volume):


That was 1957 - I think 2007 would be recent and has anyone written anything that supports the find?

[_Dr. Shades]

Haywood's book is pretty interesting. A treasure trove of finds from the 18th century in the Ohio and Tennessee Valleys. He was a leading archeologist of the day.

Why didn't his ideas find their way into the mainstream?

[_beastie]

crocket knows these are outdated sources that more recent research has corrected. I've been over this with him several times. Although he has many annoying traits, crocket isn't stupid, and it did register with him that these sources have been invalidated. That's why he picked these exact references. He knew that by so doing he would appear stupid and incapable of learning, and hoped that's the type of response he would provoke from me. See, he's trying to make the case that I'm the equivalent of Will Schryver in the exmormon world. It's a silly case, because if I really were the equivalent of Schryver, all crocket would have to do to make that case is do a quick search of my posts, and he'd find pages full of personal, and often vulgar, attacks. But since he can't do that, because I'm not the equivalent of Schryver, instead he tried to goad me into making a personal attack on his intelligence so he could use that evidence. I'm no saint, and I will certainly attack someone personally, particularly if they repeatedly behave in an obnoxious fashion, but the idea that may attacks are similar in number and quality as Schryver's is plain silly.

OTOH, I did get a kick out of seeing another believer use Schryver as the exemplar of bad behavior. LOL.

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Robert,

You'll want to look at beastie's website http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com, where the citations you provide are dealt with more than adequately. Cheers,

-Chris

I clicked on that one a while back. I am a huge fan of the site. Well researched, well composed, well thought out, and fresh. There is something about the freshness and paradigm opening approach of amateur historian that I find so appealing. Perhaps hearkens back to a time when I had it. :)