Westridge & Other Schools(Formerly LDS Perceptions thread)

[_marg]

J.G. what gov't body would actively investigate and evaluate the treatment (psychological as well) of youth at private treatment facilities rather than relying upon self reports by the facility and/or youth to report who may not have opportunities to do so or may fear reprisals?

[_Jersey Girl]

J.G. what gov't body would actively investigate and evaluate the treatment (psychological as well) of youth at private treatment facilities rather than relying upon self reports by the facility and/or youth to report who may not have opportunities to do so or may fear reprisals?

Not my area but...my guess is the accreditation organizations. I think truth dancer would have the answer to your question. PM her.

[_marg]

I agree. However, I can also see how parents at the end of their rope would try just about anything, if a child was so far over the edge that they'd even consider a place such as this one.

Where is the accountability of the child for his/her own anti-social behavior? Is a 15 year old accountable for his illegal activity, as in smoking, drinking, and/or drug use? Is a 15 year old accountable for her abortion? Are 15 year old tried as adults when they kill someone? Where does the childhood end and adulthood start?

In addition, is GoodK in any way responsible for 1) his being shipped off to this facility, and 2) for the treatment he received while there?

The Westridge website mentions it doesn't take youth with serious behavioral issues. It says only soft to moderate emotional and behavioral problems. And amongst their listing they have, low self esteem, low motivation, peer problems and depression.

2 things that I'm going to speculate here. I believe they do take youth with severe issues, Bob has mentioned they do, Eric has mentioned they do and Eric's friend Chris has mentioned they do. However I learned in my discussion with a fellow from the abuse hotline department that if they took youth who are under State custody because of some serious behavioral issue the State would investigate the premises and follow the youth involved. So what I speculate on is that they advertise they don't take serious cases, in order to avoid accepting State youth who would be in close contact with outside gov't bodies which would oversee the program essentially, but that in practical terms they do...for financial interest. They charge over $3,000 per youth, it would take a good reason to turn one away.

The second speculation that I have is that many youth who end up there are there because they've given their Mormon parents a hard time with regards to obeying attending church, and being good Mormon kids. I think the niche market of this school is middle to upper Mormon parents. It's run by Mormons, a heavy emphasis is placed upon promoting Mormonism, studying the Book of Mormon, confessing to a Bishop, meeting with missionaries etc. If one doesn't comply with the readings, the confessing etc, punishment in the form of lost privileges is given.

There is no independent professional assessment given for admittance of youth. I think the main behavioral issue the school is dealing with is youth rebellion against the Mormon religion and naïve upper to middle class parents willing to fork out money, see this place as a solution to what they have failed in. I don't think the parents appreciate the education is lacking in this place, and that youth are subjected to psychological abuse.

[_Jersey Girl]

marg,

Before I go through the rest of your post, they charge 3K for what and for how long? Did you see that on the website? I'm in the middle of something or I'd look for it myself. Hope your still "on" and see this.

[_marg]

marg,

Before I go through the rest of your post, they charge 3K for what and for how long? Did you see that on the website? I'm in the middle of something or I'd look for it myself. Hope your still "on" and see this.

At Westridge and this is fairly common within the teen residential industry... they charge between $3000 - $4,000 per month on average. And it's for however long the youth are there, so there is no incentive to encourage returning youth home.

[_marg]

Just going to ramble here.

I think our best resource with regards to protocol here would be truthdancer.

Just bouncing this around though. Why does anyone think that a cooling off period, separation and no contact with parents is at all unusual in a behavior mod program?

I should think that if a child's behavior is inappropriate, has been so for years, became more pronounced in adolesence to the extent that it might include illegal acts on the part of the minor, separating parents from children is exactly the way to go. Were the family dynamic not in some way enabling, the child wouldn't be resorting to unsafe, inappropriate, anti-social behaviors to begin with.

I'm going to speculate on this as well. When people make difficult or big decisions right after they often go through a process known as cognitive dissonance..reevaluating their decision. Soon after it is easy to change one's mind but as time goes on and one accepts the decision a reversal of it is less likely because people tend to justify the decision made, whether it was a good one or not, they look for reasons to support it.

I think the main reason the school does not want parents talking with their child, is they know the parents are highly vulnerable to reversing their decision at the beginning and especially if the youth gives them good reason to. As time goes on it becomes more difficult for the parent to reverse their decision and having made it, justified it, they are less likely to be willing to listen to their child. So from the school's perspective this isn't so much a cooling off period with a concern for parent or child but a financial interest to keep their sales/youths.

[_JAK]

Abuse like torture is a term which is open for interpretation.

Actually, no, it's not. Abuse is a legal term to define a specific set of actions. If the actions don't fit the legal term, then it's not abuse. There is no interpretation.

Discovering or confirming details of GoodK’s story becomes more difficult with the passing of time.

It's called the statute of limitations, and if I remember correctly, it's already run out.

If his story is basically accurate, delay is in the interest of West Ridge.

If his story was basically accurate, all he needs is a lawyer. But as Jersey has shown, what he's calling abuse doesn't meet the legal criteria.

Both abuse and torture are subject to interpretations by individual courts, individual states, individual countries, and by collective agreements such as the UN Convention Against Torture.

Both are subject to presentation of evidence in compliance with an agreed to or contested interpretation of “abuse” or “torture.”

A Summary of United Nations Agreements on Human Rights is demonstration that both terms are subjective and subject to both legal and non-legal interpretations.

A group addressing these issues can be accessed.

Mormons and Child Abuse

Religion and Child Abuse more broadly.
Scroll down to “Labels” for specific examples.

Both abuse and torture are open to subjective interpretation as well as legal interpretation.

harmony stated:
“Actually, no, it's not. Abuse is a legal term to define a specific set of actions. If the actions don't fit the legal term, then it's not abuse. There is no interpretation.”

This is incorrect analysis. Different courts, different states, different countries, all apply varying interpretation to what constitutes “abuse” and “torture.”

Both terms are legal terms in the context of the above distinctions. Both terms are subjectively interpreted by the above distinctions.

harmony stated:
“If his story was basically accurate, all he needs is a lawyer. But as Jersey has shown, what he's calling abuse doesn't meet the legal criteria.”

He needs more than “a lawyer.” He may need multiple lawyers and a court willing to hear his case (should he attempt to make it). If no court will hear the case for any reason (statute of limitations), a lawyer will be of no benefit.

harmony, think of the variables which might move from discipline to abuse to torture. For example: When does physical punishment move from discipline to abuse to torture? When does sleep deprivation move from discipline to abuse to torture? When does deprivation of food (nourishment) move from discipline to abuse to torture?
When does demand for physical work move from discipline to abuse to torture?

These and virtually any other treatments come under subjective review by someone – a parent, a judge, a court, a jury. “Legal criteria” is not the same from court to court, from state to state, or from country to country even when some kind of legal criteria is interpreted.

Consider the classes of abuse linked for you here.

In these definitions, you will find this statement:
“Prolonged or intense physical abuse results in torture.”

Consider how much subjective interpretation is inherent in such a statement. What is “prolonged”? Three judges or three courts or three parents might likely disagree on when “abuse” is reached or when “torture” is reached.

JAK

[_marg]

This article was interesting with many comments applicable to concerns regarding Westridge. Although Westridge is regulated with the Licensing Dept of the Dept of Health, my impression is that it relies upon self reporting by Westridge and complaints from youth, but that it doesn't actively seek to uncover abuse, or evaluate the program. I'm posting the link for reference purposes and later review.

http://www.apa.org/pi/cyf/specialty_schooling.pdf

by the way this was of interest, as I noted in a previous post it is likely changes were made to regulations in Utah as a facility had shipped their students sometime in 2005 to Montana which had zero regulatory requirements.

An example of such legislation is Utah Senate Bill 107, which was
signed into law in March, 2005; this bill defines “therapeutic schools” and clearly specifies that these programs must be licensed
and regulated like all other residential treatment facilities for youth (S. 107, 2005).

And I'm putting this site here for later review http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2005/bills/sbillenr/sb0107.htm

[_Yoda]

Marg--

Is Eric aware of the research you are doing on his behalf?

I think it's great!

He owes you a huge thank you.

[_GoodK]

I'm going to be completely and blatantly honest with you: you don't know what you're talking about.

LOL.

I'm going to be blatantly honest with you, yes I do. In fact, I'm one of the few here that does. But while we're being honest with each other, you're not only a glorified babysitter whose occupation lends little to zero expertise and understanding to this important discussion, but also a drain on a fragile economy who should be put through an intensive cost-benefit analysis.

As far as "knowing what I'm talking about," LOL again. You need a new routine, this schtick is getting pretty old.

"Jersey Girl"]
Here's a link to the Board of Directors (etc) as of 1 Mar 09.

http://utahboysranch.org/BoardofTrustees/BoardofTrustees.html

Oh My God

I had no idea that list existed! Jersey Girl! How did you find it??!!
I'm shocked to the point of disbelief at your research skills. Surely the local government in your town knows what a resource they have.



Seriously though, this is a really good case study of people in Jersey Girl's profession. First of all, they never ever call themselves what they are - like the garbage man being a "sanitation engineer" - she is a "professional in the social services" or some other self-important sounding title.
Second, they are lazy. Extremely. Most of the questions raised here could be answered by accessing the website I sponsor. Rhetorical questions, ego-stroking questions, stupid questions aren't worthy of my time -- especially now. Third, they are unbelievably egotistical. Jersey Girl, as evidenced by this thread, has contributed zero relevant information specific to West Ridge Academy. She then had the audacity to mention a "consult fee" for her vacuous posts. She has not even been on the right topic - let alone right about any of the details - yet she has the audacity to boast otherwise and call me out. Wow. Your government at work, folks.

Chris Buttars name appears NOWHERE on any of these lists.

Woah. You must have misspoke. "These lists" doesn't exist. A list exists, (courtesy of the organization that had to replace Buttars or lose its tax exempt status) that you found. I have certainly been aware of the website http://www.utahboysranch.org longer than you have (I also happen to have access to the "Parent Portal" section). But congratulations on finding it.

Here is probably the last response Jersey Girl will get, unless she wows me with something compelling:

Buttars is still on the board. Of course he is. It's not even questionable. But what you might be confused by, and what some good "digging" will uncover, is that the board is structured to have an "Executive Committee," "Board Members," and officers.

Exec. Committee:

John R Anderson
W. Dean Belnap
Stephen C. Johnson
U. Shaun Michel
Gary W. Miyasaki
Reed Searle
Colleen Thompson
Chris D Buttars
Delpha Baird

The Board Members:

Harold Christensen
Leonard Driggs
Kimo Esplin
Debi Gilmore
Patrick McBride
James McQueen
Rachelle Rhodes
Howard Schmidt
Steven Williams
Thomas Williamson
Barrie Giles
Dean Belnap
Lavar Christensen
Sally Wyne
Nate Shipp

and the other names on this list

Now I believe you owe me an apology.


My profession for several years was a researcher and I never liked doing other people's work, especially when the payoff is as unrewarding as it is here. Even more so when I have to purchase the court records.

For instance, did you know that "West Ridge Academy" was sold to the city as a "non-correctional boarding school" and then a "private boarding school"? West Ridge Academy is not zoned to be a "residential treatment facility" and the city did not authorize such a place.

Of course you didn't know that. It would require too much effort to dig up that sort of information. How does that mesh with the pages and pages and pages of filler and unrelated fact sheets you've cluttered us with, Jersey Girl? Answer: It doesn't.

Those that know the least about this subject - not just specifically the Mormon Gulag, but the overall subject - have taken over this thread.

But just because Wikipedia's entry on RTF's isn't information I find useful or interesting doesn't mean you can't continue on here. Just don't expect me to be engaged.

Are you attempting to verify the claims that you're making here?

LOL.

For JAK, and others curious, here is the link to the article that contains the Buttars quote I mentioned. It's an interesting read, and the utterance was in fact made while he was the acting Executive Director.

http://archive.deseretnews.com/archive/ ... RANCH.html

But folks; truth is, I'm not an activist. I'm a writer.
I really appreciate Marg's efforts - no matter how unfruitful they will inevitably prove to be. I personally don't have time to do what I've hired Chris Wade to do. Chris is responsible for all the activism, Chris answers emails from former boys, Chris pretty much runs the show in Utah. I don't expect Jersey Girl or Harmony or anyone else who has never visited the website to know this, but most of you do. He is a very capable guy, and would be very open to hearing suggestions, questions, or criticisms. He can be reached at Chris@MormonGulag.com, or at the message board where more than thirty former boys and staff can be contacted. You can read more about the roles of those involved in this noble cause here.

I've spent more time here today than I wanted to, so it'll be a few days before I get to respond again. Cheers.

Eric