Was Joseph Smith Trustworthy?

[_why me]

'Why me' passes the test again! A marvelous work, and a wonder!

Thank you. When I look in the mirror in the morning I often see a marvelous work and a wonder.

[_rcrocket]

First of all, prepare those rubes with exhibitions of the most heartfelt
religious professions imaginable. Dazzle them with accounts of heavenly
visions. Scare them with pronouncements of Divine Wrath. Flatter them
with self-serving prophecies. Weep and gasp with affected displays of
intense brotherly love. Dwell for hours upon the fate of their eternal
souls. Sing emotional hymns with them. Fast and pray for hours on end.

OK -- now surreptitiously administer a measure of belladonna and
jimsonweed to them. Show them a pile of metallic-looking pages.
Make use of a few "gee-whiz" visual and sound effects. And what will
they experience?

Amazing. I wonder which of his intimate associates who apostacized ever say anything to confirm this, or that Joseph Smith had expertise in smoke and mirrors and metallurgy. I also wonder why the great con continues to persuade those who were never there to see it.

Oh, and by the way, David was not the product of a plural wife and went insane because of the reorganization. He, his mother and brother knew they were frauds and imposters and it was too much for David.

[_KimberlyAnn]

'Why me' passes the test again! A marvelous work, and a wonder!

Thank you. When I look in the mirror in the morning I often see a marvelous work and a wonder.

When I read your posts I see you as a piece of work.

Does that mean we have something in common?

KA

[_why me]

WhyMe believes that "setting the record straight" and "his viewpoint" are synonymous.

He is here to be a hero, to go where no other apologist dares to go, to make sure social justice is done "he doesn't want the antimormons to have free reign on this board". He doesn't care if his arguments are valid he just argues. That is true apologetics Mormon style.

WhyMe I have tired of your viewpoint, how about something to back them up? There have dozens of examples stated why Joe was not trustworthy you haven't offered a single example of him being trustworthy. Not one.

WhyMe I think you are sincere in your viewpoint, but sincerely wrong.

Well, it is true that the Mormons have hightailed it out of here. The lawsuit threat against a prominent member of the apologist team was enough for the Mormons to leave. And so, I decided to hang out here. No one else is. And I do believe that this is the way the board wanted it: for the Mormons to leave.

Was Joe trustworthy. Yes, I think so. The bottom line: he created something good...a church that has made this world a better place by teaching people how to live closer to god. If the world had more Mormons it would certainly be a better place. In other words, Joseph Smith established a good church with good people that has progressed through the generations.

Also, most of his polygamous sealings occured within a two year period from 1841 to 1843? Why? Certainly it wasn't lust. I could think of better ways to appease horny toadism. There was another reason: to obey the word of god. And he did it knowing full well that it was dangerous to do so.

[_why me]

Your aligning yourself with the Bushman position fails to make this any more plausible. It is hard to believe that a practice (money digging, glass looking) that brought Joseph up on charges of being a "disorderly person" would be a tool that God would use to prepare a prophet. This line of reasoning leads me to wonder what it was that Joseph did as a youth, and was facilitated by God that prepared Joseph to successfully practice polygamy and fulfill his destiny. The only thing that comes to mind is fornication.

Bushman wrote a good biography. Also, Christ has used people who may not have been the best before they met god. Paul, is a good example. And of course, a tax collector who was not exactly respectable at that time. Simon Peter was a rather interesting guy. How many respectable people did Christ choose to follow him?

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Oh, and by the way, David was not the product of a plural wife and went insane because of the reorganization. He, his mother and brother knew they were frauds and imposters and it was too much for David.

Wrong. What was "too much" for David was his discovering that his father was the sexual monster the Brighamites made him out to be. David was truly a sad story.

[Bedlamite]

Oh, and by the way, David was not the product of a plural wife and went insane because of the reorganization. He, his mother and brother knew they were frauds and imposters and it was too much for David.

Wrong. What was "too much" for David was his discovering that his father was the sexual monster the Brighamites made him out to be. David was truly a sad story.

Mental illness can spring from many possible sources -- but in David's case, I suspect a
genetic predisposition reaching back into the Mack side of his parents' family tree.

Had Joe Smith managed to survive a few more years, he might well have ended up in
the penitentiary -- and gone from there to the insane asylum. Sidney Rigdon barely
managed to avoid such an ignoble fate, in my estimation.

Ever read David Hyrum's creepy poem -- "Sidney on the Brain?"
I wonder if he penned a companion piece -- "Father on the Brain?"

I'm not saying that David Hyrum was destined for insanity because his
father was afflicted with mental illness -- but that possibility remains.

Whatever the case may have been, David was the only product of the
angelic efforts -- no matter that he came from the womb of Joe's only
legal sexual partner.

Obviously that angel with the sword had not looked very far into the future,
when he presented the holy ultimatum to Joe --- procreate en masse
or die!


UD

[_why me]

I think that Joseph believed in himself -- at times.

I think that Joseph believed what he was doing was good -- at times.

UD

I think that Joseph often wondered just how he got himself into all this. Why was he chosen must have been a question he asked himself. He seemed to go into depression at times because of all the suffering the saints were enduring and wondered just where god was in all this. But he stuck with it. And I think that that is rather admirable. He built cities and communities and in the process wanted to form communities that were just and egalitarian.

But yes, at times he must have wondered what good he was doing...and yet he died young, just 38 years old. He achieved much in his short life.

[_Yong Xi]

WhyMe believes that "setting the record straight" and "his viewpoint" are synonymous.

He is here to be a hero, to go where no other apologist dares to go, to make sure social justice is done "he doesn't want the antimormons to have free reign on this board". He doesn't care if his arguments are valid he just argues. That is true apologetics Mormon style.

WhyMe I have tired of your viewpoint, how about something to back them up? There have dozens of examples stated why Joe was not trustworthy you haven't offered a single example of him being trustworthy. Not one.

WhyMe I think you are sincere in your viewpoint, but sincerely wrong.

Well, it is true that the Mormons have hightailed it out of here. The lawsuit threat against a prominent member of the apologist team was enough for the Mormons to leave. And so, I decided to hang out here. No one else is. And I do believe that this is the way the board wanted it: for the Mormons to leave.

God set it up for you to run the table.

[_Pokatator]

Well, it is true that the Mormons have hightailed it out of here. The lawsuit threat against a prominent member of the apologist team was enough for the Mormons to leave. And so, I decided to hang out here. No one else is. And I do believe that this is the way the board wanted it: for the Mormons to leave.

That is not how I wanted it or many others on this board. That is not the intent of this board, read the rules.

Was Joe trustworthy. Yes, I think so. The bottom line: he created something good...a church that has made this world a better place by teaching people how to live closer to god. If the world had more Mormons it would certainly be a better place. In other words, Joseph Smith established a good church with good people that has progressed through the generations.

That is your viewpoint and you are entitled to it but even if were true that Joe created something good...a church, it does not make it true. It doesn't make the Book of Mormon archeologically true, DNA true, geographically true or scripturally true. Doesn't make the products he produced such as the Book of Abraham true or his view of God or eternal progression....true. It doesn't make it, "the one and only true church" and etc. A good organization where people improve or become better doesn't make that organization better or more true than Baptists or Methodists or any other church or AA or toastmasters. If longevity has anything to do with it Mormonism loses to the Catholics. Sorry, whyme, nothing new here just more PolyAnna excuses from you.

Also, most of his polygamous sealings occured within a two year period from 1841 to 1843? Why? Certainly it wasn't lust. I could think of better ways to appease horny toadism. There was another reason: to obey the word of god. And he did it knowing full well that it was dangerous to do so.

If it wasn't lust, it was insanity. My view is God had nothing to do with Joe, gold plates, or any of it.

Please don't describe how you appease your horny toadism, after all we do have Willie for that.