Marg wrote:What is concerning is that since Bonnie acknowledge "work crew" was abusive, the practice included taking youth out of school and assigning them meaningless tasks like moving rocks around for hours, and if it was the school which voluntarily stopped this practice, then what good does Human Services do, if they from at least 2005, when licensing was state mandatory..never noticed or if they did notice, allowed it to go on.
Unfortunately, with the mountains of paperwork that is involved with Social Services reports, it actually can take years before action is taken, even if an incident is properly reported.
It's definitely a problem. I don't really know what the solution is.
Making things public the way Eric has...and also by taking actions like you have, Marg, and actually calling workers in the field, and asking questions is a definite step in the right direction.
As the starter of this thread, I have purposely let the topic evolve because I would really like to see active discussion in this area continue.
If an organization which is actively abusing children can be shut down, then I want to see it happen. Bob asked me on another thread why I "bought" everything that Eric said.
Maybe I'm naïve, but as a mother of 3, when someone talks about child abuse, that stabs directly at my heart. I think about my own kids, and if anyone hurt any of them, how I would react. My heart goes out to anyone who has been abused.
It is also hard for me to believe that someone would make up something like that. I suppose it happens, but it has been shown that those cases are actually quite rare. Children don't typically lie about being abused.
I am so glad to see that even though we all have our differences when it comes to debating Mormonism topics, we can come together on a topic this important.
Eric, I honestly hope that you gain the closure you need with all of this. I hope that in addition to the current fight you are battling with Westridge, that you are also taking care of yourself and getting counseling. Anyone who has gone through that horrific an experience needs some professional guidance. As you can tell, I have a very soft spot for you. I think a lot of us here do.
One thing I really don't understand have been the slams at Jersey Girl. She is a professional educator who has worked hand in hand with Social Services on these types of cases for years. I know that Marg felt that Jersey Girl's approach was sometimes less than sympathetic, and, obviously, Eric felt this way as well. I don't think that was really the case. Jersey Girl was trying to ask tough questions so that Eric would ultimately have more ammunition because she has dealt with this bureaucratic nightmare on numerous occasions!
TD's and Jersey Girl's expertise on the Social Services issues here are priceless. Thanks to both of you for contributing.
Marg....I really admire your tenacity in taking it upon yourself to call the agencies in Utah, and getting this involved.
I honestly hope that some solutions surrounding the problems at Westridge can be put into practice as a result from some of the work here.
liz3564 wrote: One thing I really don't understand have been the slams at Jersey Girl. She is a professional educator who has worked hand in hand with Social Services on these types of cases for years.
Let me try and explain a little:
First, social services as a whole is a joke. It disgusts me to think of the tax dollars that goes their way and ultimately down the toilet. A degree in social work is like a degree in photography. Entirely useless. Teachers, social workers, and other "professional educator" positions need a rigorous cost benefit analysis, given the current state of our economy.
I know that Marg felt that Jersey Girl's approach was sometimes less than sympathetic, and, obviously, Eric felt this way as well. I don't think that was really the case. Jersey Girl was trying to ask tough questions so that Eric would ultimately have more ammunition because she has dealt with this bureaucratic nightmare on numerous occasions!
LOL. Liz, you know I love you, but come on. Seriously?
Second, Jersey Girl and her other, less intelligent counterpart have decided to challenge me because it is me. They both long for DCP's approval - and make no attempts at hiding it. My lawsuit against DCP, along with all the other things I've done to send the professional Mopologist's house of cards tumbling doesn't sit well with them. One only needs to review the threads I've been involved in chronologically to verify this claim.
Third, Jersey Girl and her less-than-appealing friend have been more than insulting. Do you think I would just "slam" some lady - metaphorically speaking, of course - without a good reason or provocation? Of course not. Jersey Girl has decided to defend the Mormon Gulag and the failed bureaucracy that allows it to exist.
Fourth, she really doesn't know what she is talking about. That has been evidenced by this thread. Her expertise is not priceless and I would offer a challenge to anyone who thinks otherwise to quote a mildly useful comment from Jersey Girl on this topic. It can't be done. She has provided irrelevant links, fact sheets, and a cornucopia of veiled bragging: but nothing useful as far as this topic is concerned. The only information Jersey Girl has contributed has come from the first page of results on google. She expects me to verify my claims using the Mormon Gulag's own advertisements. She has the gall to mention a "consult fee" and say that I don't know what I'm talking about.
Finally, and this goes back to number two, somewhere along the lines a line has been drawn and people feel as though they need to take sides. I don't mind -- there are many people over at CARM that defend the RCC's handling of molesting priests. If Jersey Girl and Harmony and Kerry Shirts and Robert Crockett all want to be on that side, more power to them. Don't expect me to respect them.
I, on the other hand, have single handedly:
Changed the very nature of how West Ridge Academy operates.
Provided a place for former victims to reconnect, share their experiences, and do something.
Cast a very bright and uncomfortable spotlight on West Ridge Academy for years to come.
Along with my other colleagues at CAFETY; was responsible for House Resolution 911, which is some legislation this foul industry desperately needed.
Jersey Girl likes to argue with me. I like to argue with her. But this is more than that. Just because I am the only one talking about it here, on this message board, does not mean I am the only one talking about it. I have former staff members that corroborate my entire story. One happens to be a federal agent and active LDS member. I have sponsored a website so that no one has to take my word for it. But that wouldn't make for much of an argument, would it?
I think Social Workers, in general, are overpaid and unnecessarily employed. Furthermore, there isn't a single Social Worker doing a single thing for the boys at the Mormon Gulag. If West Ridge "Academy" fell under the supervision of Utah's DHS in 2005 - emphasis on IF - that means that for thirty years the Mormon Gulag operated without oversight. Remember my Chris Buttars quote about relishing this lack of government oversight?
I hope this sheds some light on my feelings towards Jersey Girl who, for the record, believes and argues that Noah's flood literally happened.
So I phoned the school to get their perspective on some things and spoke with Jared in admissions for about 5 minutes.
He confirmed what Eric had said that "work crew" was stopped 5 months ago. Bonnie had said it was discontinued in the last 2 - 3 years and replaced with a separate containment classroom. He said work crew was given when someone was disruptive in class and they were given assignments such as writing about "why they were in school". He said he didn't know what I was talking about having youth do menial tasks like moving rocks around for hours or wearing of blankets and being tethered to a rope the first week they arrive. He acknowledge that psycho-edu assessment was not a requirement for admission but that parents don't send their kids there without good reason. Most have had psycho -edu assessments and issues at home have been going on for some time, issues such as substance abuse. I asked how a youth could report abuse as I had a difficult time getting connect with Bonnie at DHS. He responded that when youth arrive they are informed of their rights, I believe in writing not just verbally and that they are told they can report to staff who will follow up. So that if they want to report, they inform staff, who contacts Bonnie and Bonnie responds because it's the school calling, she knows the school and the youth is put in contact with her.
I don't know when Jared started working there, perhaps things have changed in his time there, but I doubt the individuals who were previous students at West Ridge, who put up youtubes of their protest at the Scarecrow Festival about 5 individuals in all were all lying about wearing of a blanket and being tethered to a rope as part of the punishment program at the school.
I realized after the phone call I forgot to ask him the purpose of the 3 colored t-shirts.
I'm writing this not to you but to various institutions that make money off of children and families who may be struggling and vulnerable.
Most have had psycho -edu assessments and issues at home have been going on for some time, issues such as substance abuse.
So if a child has substance abuse issues they must be kidnapped and treated out of state in an institution for a year or so? This is nonsense! Institutionalization is the best way to treat depression? Bereavement? PTSD? Low motivation? Learning Disabilities? Low self esteem? Dysthymia? Abuse and neglect? Anxiety disorders? Adoption issues? Family difficulties? The answers are no to all of the above.
Well, unless you can make money by convincing parents this is the only way their child can be managed.
I asked how a youth could report abuse as I had a difficult time getting connect with Bonnie at DHS. He responded that when youth arrive they are informed of their rights,
What does this even mean. So children are informed of their rights... big deal. As if a child has any say in the matter or has any recourse if they are uncomfortable with the situation. No parents, no advocate, no adult to help.
I believe in writing not just verbally and that they are told they can report to staff who will follow up.
This is craziness. Again, so a child is supposed to report abuse to their abuser (or the abuser's friend)? Are these folks serious?
So that if they want to report, they inform staff, who contacts Bonnie and Bonnie responds because it's the school calling, she knows the school and the youth is put in contact with her.
Hence the problem. :-(
The whole thing is craziness.
The whole idea of an institution, the methods and techniques used, the complete idiocy of it all makes me crazy! These types of facilities should be closed down!
There is a big difference between forcing a child to conform and obey, and truly helping a child; learning to submit to authority is not the same as healing.
~td~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
First, social services as a whole is a joke. It disgusts me to think of the tax dollars that goes their way and ultimately down the toilet. A degree in social work is like a degree in photography. Entirely useless. Teachers, social workers, and other "professional educator" positions need a rigorous cost benefit analysis, given the current state of our economy.
I think those working in the field of social services for the most part have good intentions but the bureaucracy is out of control. In many respects social work has become not about children but about managing the mess that is the system.
I have seen great social workers and some seriously not so good ones. Today I am very frustrated with one of the latter. The job is not an easy one and too often the work load is just beyond what anyone can manage. It doesn't excuse the concerns.
The whole system just doesn't work as it should in my opinion.
~td~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
I'm writing this not to you but to various institutions that make money off of children and families who may be struggling and vulnerable.
Most have had psycho -edu assessments and issues at home have been going on for some time, issues such as substance abuse.
So if a child has substance abuse issues they must be kidnapped and treated out of state in an institution for a year or so? This is nonsense! Institutionalization is the best way to treat depression? Bereavement? PTSD? Low motivation? Learning Disabilities? Low self esteem? Dysthymia? Abuse and neglect? Anxiety disorders? Adoption issues? Family difficulties? The answers are no to all of the above.
Well, unless you can make money by convincing parents this is the only way their child can be managed.
I asked how a youth could report abuse as I had a difficult time getting connect with Bonnie at DHS. He responded that when youth arrive they are informed of their rights,
What does this even mean. So children are informed of their rights... big deal. As if a child has any say in the matter or has any recourse if they are uncomfortable with the situation. No parents, no advocate, no adult to help.
JAK: No child beginning at age 13 has sufficient knowledge to know what “their rights” are or even what “rights” are. Hence, I agree with your analysis here. A child may not even know how to interpret “uncomfortable with the situation.” That child did not arrive at a place like West Ridge as a matter of his/her own choice.
I believe in writing not just verbally and that they are told they can report to staff who will follow up.
This is craziness. Again, so a child is supposed to report abuse to their abuser (or the abuser's friend)? Are these folks serious?
JAK: A poignant point: Reporting “abuse” implies that the “child” knows what “abuse” actually is. The transition from something discipline or punishment to abuse often occurs in incremental or gradual stages. When is a child abused? That conclusion is a matter for individual legal groups (courts, judges, etc.) which vary from location to location. Abuse in Michigan may not be abuse in Utah. That is a matter of assessment in different states or courts. No “child” can know just when the line has been crossed even in his/her location let alone know that as it is interpreted across just the USA.
So that if they want to report, they inform staff, who contacts Bonnie and Bonnie responds because it's the school calling, she knows the school and the youth is put in contact with her.
Hence the problem. :-(
The whole thing is craziness.
The whole idea of an institution, the methods and techniques used, the complete idiocy of it all makes me crazy! These types of facilities should be closed down!
There is a big difference between forcing a child to conform and obey, and truly helping a child; learning to submit to authority is not the same as healing.
~td~
JAK: Certainly there is a “big difference between forcing a child to conform and obey and truly helping a child…” However, localities don’t agree on this distinction. Obeying law is “learning to submit to authority.” Yet, as you observe, “…learning to submit to authority is not the same as healing.”
The assumption of parents who place their child in a place like West Ridge is that such a place can heal or cure that child of what the parent regards as essential. Closing down private organizations which have marginal compliance with laws of a given place is problematic. You, ~td~ are not the law. While I agree such places “should be closed down,” doing that is not as easily done as stated.
It would appear that for pressures, perhaps those made by people such as Eric, such places have modified their modus operandi. However, so long as people are willing to pay for any given perceived service, such a service is likely to continue somewhere even if it is diminished in visibility. You might think we should close down prostitution or gambling. But so long as there is a demand for these, they will exist if even in the shadows.
marg wrote:So I phoned the school to get their perspective on some things and spoke with Jared in admissions for about 5 minutes.
He confirmed what Eric had said that "work crew" was stopped 5 months ago. Bonnie had said it was discontinued in the last 2 - 3 years and replaced with a separate containment classroom. He said work crew was given when someone was disruptive in class and they were given assignments such as writing about "why they were in school". He said he didn't know what I was talking about having youth do menial tasks like moving rocks around for hours or wearing of blankets and being tethered to a rope the first week they arrive. He acknowledge that psycho-edu assessment was not a requirement for admission but that parents don't send their kids there without good reason. Most have had psycho -edu assessments and issues at home have been going on for some time, issues such as substance abuse. I asked how a youth could report abuse as I had a difficult time getting connect with Bonnie at DHS. He responded that when youth arrive they are informed of their rights, I believe in writing not just verbally and that they are told they can report to staff who will follow up. So that if they want to report, they inform staff, who contacts Bonnie and Bonnie responds because it's the school calling, she knows the school and the youth is put in contact with her.
I don't know when Jared started working there, perhaps things have changed in his time there, but I doubt the individuals who were previous students at West Ridge, who put up youtubes of their protest at the Scarecrow Festival about 5 individuals in all were all lying about wearing of a blanket and being tethered to a rope as part of the punishment program at the school.
I realized after the phone call I forgot to ask him the purpose of the 3 colored t-shirts.
There is a difference of opinion here.
marg stated: So I phoned the school to get their perspective on some things and spoke with Jared in admissions for about 5 minutes.
He confirmed what Eric had said that "work crew" was stopped 5 months ago. Bonnie had said it was discontinued in the last 2 - 3 years and replaced with a separate containment classroom.
If it was “5 months ago” it was not “2-3 years..”
marg stated: He (Eric) said work crew was given when someone was disruptive in class and they were given assignments such as writing about "why they were in school".
Perhaps so. But just what is/was the criteria for when “someone was disruptive…”? That’s a judgment call.
marg stated: He (Eric) responded that when youth arrive they are informed of their rights, I believe in writing not just verbally and that they are told they can report to staff who will follow up.
That leaves a wide door for abuse. Just how are they “informed”? To what extent does the “youth” understand the “writing” they are submitted? Does the “youth” have legal counsel present for the reading? Are the “youth” who are candidates for West Ridge in any position emotionally or mentally to read “writing” placed before them to read? (We buy things every day which have disclaimers or fine print on which we click “Agree” that we don’t read or don’t understand.)
I’m skeptical that the “youth” have full cognition regarding what they read in “writing.”
marg stated: He (Eric) responded that when youth arrive they are informed of their rights, I believe in writing not just verbally and that they are told they can report to staff who will follow up. So that if they want to report, they inform staff, who contacts Bonnie and Bonnie responds because it's the school calling, she knows the school and the youth is put in contact with her.
They are reporting “to staff who will follow up.” Really? It is the “staff” that is open to question and which may be involved in abuse. So, the “youth” sign an agreement which is meaningless. What does “follow up” mean? In all this detail, the “youth” has no objective advocate that is committed to the welfare of that youth. All these people work with each other in their interest, not necessarily in the interest of the “youth” who have made a “report.” And, just how does this “youth” make a “report”? Is that “report” in writing? Is it verbal? If it is the latter, absent a recorded document of that “report,” the youth has nothing but his/her word that a “report” was made.
Like you, I doubt that “all were all lying about wearing of a blanket and being tethered to a rope as part of the punishment program at the school.”
There is ample room for subversion of relevant detail by all who are connected with West Ridge and who are paid by West Ridge.
Closing down private organizations which have marginal compliance with laws of a given place is problematic. You, ~td~ are not the law. While I agree such places “should be closed down,” doing that is not as easily done as stated.
I have never claimed to be "the law" and I do not recall stating that it would be easy to close down these sorts of facilities. Trust me, I know it is not easy, (near impossible right now) to eliminate these sorts of institutions and if I recall I stated earlier that it would be some time in the future when they are considered barbaric by society and removed from the planet. I'm confident it will happen but it will take some time.
Still, they should not exist in my opinion.
~td~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
When you can learn to synthesize what you read on this board and accurately evaluate it, I'll find myself more satisfied. I'll intersperse my comments between yours.
Eric: Let me try and explain a little:
First, social services as a whole is a joke. It disgusts me to think of the tax dollars that goes their way and ultimately down the toilet. A degree in social work is like a degree in photography. Entirely useless. Teachers, social workers, and other "professional educator" positions need a rigorous cost benefit analysis, given the current state of our economy.
Jersey Girl: I can think of no person on this thread who believes that social services represents an effective, seamless system of regulatory controls and responses. Anyone who has accessed a social services agency, such as myself, well understands what it wrong, where and why. I do not work for social services. I've worked with "them" as a mandated reporter and licensed administrator for a total of 23 years. When you discuss teachers and professional educators, you are talking about myself, Liz and truth dancer. That you lack an understanding of how the teaching field has already been impacted by the economy, how teachers and others in education are now wearing multiple hats in order to respond to budget cuts=staff reductions, is no surprise to me. You offer suggestions as to what you think needs to be done in the field of education, and don't seem to be aware that it is facilitated on an annual basis and is already part of the process.
Liz Quote: I know that Marg felt that Jersey Girl's approach was sometimes less than sympathetic, and, obviously, Eric felt this way as well. I don't think that was really the case. Jersey Girl was trying to ask tough questions so that Eric would ultimately have more ammunition because she has dealt with this bureaucratic nightmare on numerous occasions!
Eric: LOL. Liz, you know I love you, but come on. Seriously?
Jersey Girl: I stated so myself when I self-described as devil's advocate for you. If your assertions cannot past muster with me, how do you expect them to pass in the court system? I've asked you tough questions because others will ask them. That's what I've done from day one with you on this topic and stated clearly from the outset what position I would take and why. I can't make you read what I write, Eric. That I've been tough on you is no indication of lack of support. It is an indication that I know full well what you would have been in for in your pursuit of West Ridge and that you demonstrated no evidence that you were prepared. You remain unprepared. I've not taken this up with you to make you feel good about yourself. I've taken it up with you, for as I stated multiple times in these types of threads, if the allegations are true, I would like you to be successful in your endeavor.
Your participation on this particular thread has been to dart in and out, make a few smart ass remarks, remarks wherein you elevate yourself while the entire time, people have accessed and posted valuable information on your behalf.
Why aren't YOU posting it?
Eric: Second, Jersey Girl and her other, less intelligent counterpart have decided to challenge me because it is me. They both long for DCP's approval - and make no attempts at hiding it. My lawsuit against DCP, along with all the other things I've done to send the professional Mopologist's house of cards tumbling doesn't sit well with them. One only needs to review the threads I've been involved in chronologically to verify this claim.
Jersey Girl: I don't know who the "counterpart" is that you reference here. Straight up, Eric: I don't give a rock solid damn who or what you choose to sue. DCP is a guy on a message board and I've treated him as such from the first I encountered him online. His position in the LDS Church or in apologetics is irrelevant to me. The LDS Church and apologetics is irrelevant to me. I have no horse in that race. What you are doing in the above series of comments is to attempt to find a reason for my approaches to you on these threads when infact, I told you from day one, what my approach would be and why. That of devil's advocate. You will recall, or don't you?, that it was I who asked DCP to stand down when you related your story about the "gulag". What you don't understand is that people like me fail to tow a party line, Eric. I don't draw a line down the middle of the membership list of this board and choose a side. I am not on your side, DCP's side, and no person who knows me on these boards would expect me to take up for them and make comments that were not congruent with the truth of how I see things. I pick and choose what I support or oppose and not based on who authors it.
Eric: Third, Jersey Girl and her less-than-appealing friend have been more than insulting. Do you think I would just "slam" some lady - metaphorically speaking, of course - without a good reason or provocation? Of course not. Jersey Girl has decided to defend the Mormon Gulag and the failed bureaucracy that allows it to exist.
Jersey Girl: What friend are you talking about? I have NEVER defended the Mormon Gulag. That is the reasoning of a young man who hasn't paid attention to what I've posted to him from day one, hasn't bothered to notice that my position has remained consistent throughout our interaction regarding West Ridge. I have never, would never and will never defend an institution that I have little experience with. You are trying to make me out to be some sort of LDS defender who honors the authority of the LDS church when what I am is a child advocate and educator. Do you honestly think I would set aside my professional integrity to somehow support an institution that I have little experience with? My position all along has been an attempt to get you to refine your assertions, arguments, allegations and to put up solid evidence.
To this day, you have not put up solid evidence for your claims nor have you given us any indication by your postings that you are familiar with the system of rules, regulations and reporting procedures. You have blustered along with references of attorney's and given little else.
I am not here to make you feel good, Eric. On this issue, making you feel good will never be a priority for me. Do you want friendly interaction with someone who knows better and fails to say it or do you want truth from the perspective of one who is reading and evaluating your assertions? How your assertions, allegations, and lack of evidence play out on this board is a direct reflection of how they will play out in real life. On this topic, I deal in real life, Eric, not screwing around with truth.
Eric: Fourth, she really doesn't know what she is talking about. That has been evidenced by this thread. Her expertise is not priceless and I would offer a challenge to anyone who thinks otherwise to quote a mildly useful comment from Jersey Girl on this topic. It can't be done. She has provided irrelevant links, fact sheets, and a cornucopia of veiled bragging: but nothing useful as far as this topic is concerned. The only information Jersey Girl has contributed has come from the first page of results on google. She expects me to verify my claims using the Mormon Gulag's own advertisements. She has the gall to mention a "consult fee" and say that I don't know what I'm talking about.
Jersey Girl: The information that I provided you was direct references to the Utah Department of Human Services that regulate the operation of West Ridge, definitions used for the basis of filing reports and the process for reporting. If you don't want assistance from someone who has spent the last 23 years reading, interpreting and acting on the rules/regs for DHS, you should have stated upfront that you didn't care how the school was supposed to be run or how to report violations, keeping in mind that your stated goal from the start has always been and still remains getting West Ridge shut down.
That will never happen, Eric. You will never get West Ridge "shut down". As much as you would have liked to seen the school shut down when you had your experiences and then walked away, it will never be shut down.
It will never be shut down on the basis of undocumented and unreported 9 year old allegations.
It will never be shut down on account of postings on this message board or your own message board.
It will never be shut down on account of hyperbole that may sell books, but doesn't cut it as documented evidence.
It will never be shut down.
Why?
Because the program you were sent to as a teen no longer exists. The evidence of that is available to anyone with internet access and who knows how to look for it. Why didn't YOU look for it? You brought this issue to this board and have remained content for others to do the leg work for you.
Eric: Finally, and this goes back to number two, somewhere along the lines a line has been drawn and people feel as though they need to take sides. I don't mind -- there are many people over at CARM that defend the RCC's handling of molesting priests. If Jersey Girl and Harmony and Kerry Shirts and Robert Crockett all want to be on that side, more power to them. Don't expect me to respect them.
Jersey Girl: I have NEVER defended West Ridge if that's what you're talking about.
Eric: I, on the other hand, have single handedly:
Changed the very nature of how West Ridge Academy operates.
Jersey Girl: You did not singlehandedly change the very nature of how West Ridge operates. For you to make such a statement is disingenuous at best. You didn't change the program model at West Ridge. Did I see your name on the list of Board members? Are you on the Executive committe. You have a website up that alludes to past abuses there. While you have been making a website, writing a book, posting on this message board and your own, case workers, educators, therapists, MD's, administrators and board members have revamped the program at West Ridge.
Your bringing attention to past abuses in light of the fact that the changes at West Ridge were implemented long before your "cause" ever saw the light of day and think you singlehandedly did anything when "doing anything" requires the collaboration of a great many people with expertise in their field is just simply what's the phrase....hopelessly arrogant.
Eric: Provided a place for former victims to reconnect, share their experiences, and do something.
Jersey Girl: And that's a good thing. The carthartic benefit of sharing one's experiences with those who have had similiar experiences is invaluable.
Eric: Cast a very bright and uncomfortable spotlight on West Ridge Academy for years to come.
Jersey Girl: And that's where you're wrong, Eric. There doesn't need to be an unfavorable light cast on West Ridge for "years to come". The program has been revamped, DHS has paid the necessary visits and so far as I'm aware, the program was revamped long before your claims were made public.
Eric: Along with my other colleagues at CAFETY; was responsible for House Resolution 911, which is some legislation this foul industry desperately needed.
Jersey Girl: HR 911 is in a state of revision. The resolution has a long way to go, but kudos for you for being a part of pushing it through. You need to learn to view yourself as part of a network, Eric. Not one who singlehandedly does anything. No one does anything "singlehandedly" when the issue at hand is so complex as to require the collaboration of an extended network of people.
Eric: Jersey Girl likes to argue with me. I like to argue with her. But this is more than that. Just because I am the only one talking about it here, on this message board, does not mean I am the only one talking about it. I have former staff members that corroborate my entire story. One happens to be a federal agent and active LDS member. I have sponsored a website so that no one has to take my word for it. But that wouldn't make for much of an argument, would it?
Jersey Girl: It doesn't matter. Your goal of shutting down West Ridge is irrelevant. The program has changed and changed long before you created your website. While your story matters a great deal to you and the boys who suffered abuse there and need their stories to be heard and validated, your story will not get West Ridge shut down. The program, as you knew it, no longer exists.
Eric: I think Social Workers, in general, are overpaid and unnecessarily employed. Furthermore, there isn't a single Social Worker doing a single thing for the boys at the Mormon Gulag. If West Ridge "Academy" fell under the supervision of Utah's DHS in 2005 - emphasis on IF - that means that for thirty years the Mormon Gulag operated without oversight.
Jersey Girl: Yes, it operated without oversight. THAT'S why a social worker isn't doing a single thing for the boys who were there when you were. So far as I can tell, it wasn't licensed at the time. It is licensed NOW. It is under the supervision, regulation and inspection of DHS, NOW. It is likewise, under the oversight of the multiple accreditation organizations that regularly make visits to ensure that the quality of the program is maintained and that includes the education piece.
There isn't a social worker doing a single thing for the boys who were there when you were there because YOU ARE ADULTS.
Eric: Remember my Chris Buttars quote about relishing this lack of government oversight?
Jersey Girl: It doesn't matter what Buttars said. West Ridge no longer operates without oversight.
Eric: I hope this sheds some light on my feelings towards Jersey Girl who, for the record, believes and argues that Noah's flood literally happened.
Jersey Girl: I have never argued on this board that Noah's flood literally happened without stating that I believe it is ancient allegory and have stated so many times on this board when involved in discussion of the topic. I have argued repeatedly against literalism regarding the Bible as a collection of ancient books. Were you interested in accuracy, you would know that.
My one and only hope for you is that you find a way in your life to deal with your experiences at West Ridge, especially using your talents as a writer to do it, and that you find a way to move forward and find true happiness and authenticity in your life.
Last edited by Google Feedfetcher on Fri May 08, 2009 4:27 am, edited 6 times in total.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Closing down private organizations which have marginal compliance with laws of a given place is problematic. You, ~td~ are not the law. While I agree such places “should be closed down,” doing that is not as easily done as stated.
I have never claimed to be "the law" and I do not recall stating that it would be easy to close down these sorts of facilities. Trust me, I know it is not easy, (near impossible right now) to eliminate these sorts of institutions and if I recall I stated earlier that it would be some time in the future when they are considered barbaric by society and removed from the planet. I'm confident it will happen but it will take some time.
Still, they should not exist in my opinion.
~td~
Hey TD,
We’re not in disagreement. My comment that you are not the law was not an insult to you but rather a recognition that what you would like to see (as well as what I would like to see) is not something that can be accomplished against the willing support of such places like West Ridge.
Of course that comment was a statement of the obvious. I’m not the law either.
I lack the confidence you have, however, that such places will be “removed from the planet.” So long as we have people who are manipulated by organizations or individuals with motives commensurate with their own objectives, we will have a wide variety of groups which manipulate the minds of those susceptible to being controlled.
