Westridge & Other Schools(Formerly LDS Perceptions thread)

[_Jersey Girl]

I have never claimed to be "the law" and I do not recall stating that it would be easy to close down these sorts of facilities. Trust me, I know it is not easy, (near impossible right now) to eliminate these sorts of institutions and if I recall I stated earlier that it would be some time in the future when they are considered barbaric by society and removed from the planet. I'm confident it will happen but it will take some time.

Still, they should not exist in my opinion.

~td~

I saw a few more posts that I wanted to follow up on and will just attach my comments to this one.

What I think it will take, td, is re-education.

It seems to me, that when kids are shuffled to out of state institutions by parents who can afford it as per JAK's recent comments, it represents the placing of a very expensive band aid on a gaping wound. Parents who send their kid out of state to such places, have got to be parents who have reached their limit and want someone else to supply the solution. Without parents taking part in the therapy process and essentially learning to modifiy their own "behavior" how on earth can there be a long term solution for the child and their family?

As JAK implied, parents who have the means to pay for such programs and who wish for others to supply the solutions without their participation, will.

That parents think a solution can be reached without acknowledging their own part in the situation, frustrates me beyond my abililty to articulate it here!

Whew!

[_marg]

Because the program you were sent to as a teen no longer exists. The evidence of that is available to anyone with internet access and who knows how to look for it. Why didn't YOU look for it? You brought this issue to this board and have remained content for others to do the leg work for you.

J.G. I'm not aware of information being available to anyone with internet access and who knows how to look for it..that the program no longer exists.

I am aware that the school eliminated 'work crew' about a week or two, after Eric's friends put up youtube videos (Nov 4/08) of their protest outside West Ridge done in September/08 and they replaced "work crew" with "containment" classroom where disruptive youth are in a separate classroom but continue on with their education. This information is not on the Net, except now on this message board. I'm skeptical for a few reasons that the school admission's officer information to me is true, that "work crew" didn't entail meaningless physical tasks such as moving rocks around for the sake of it for hours for a few reasons. One was that Bonnie seemed to be aware that work crew entailed physical meaningless work in lieu of classroom attendance and she thought that wasn't productive. In addition why use the term "work crew" if physical work wasn't the sort of punishment for disruptive behavior employed. I think now writing assignments are given in the containment classroom but I doubt that occur when work crew was used.

So what is that you think Eric doesn't know? He informed me, that Bonnie the DHS person had been incorrect telling me, that work crew had been eliminated 2 - 3 years ago, and I verified that with the school, so DHS officer Bonnie was incorrect and Eric was right.

Jersey Girl: You did not singlehandedly change the very nature of how West Ridge operates. For you to make such a statement is disingenuous at best. You didn't change the program model at West Ridge. Did I see your name on the list of Board members? Are you on the Executive committe. You have a website up that alludes to past abuses there. While you have been making a website, writing a book, posting on this message board and your own, case workers, educators, therapists, MD's, administrators and board members have revamped the program at West Ridge.

Your bringing attention to past abuses in light of the fact that the changes at West Ridge were implemented long before your "cause" ever saw the light of day and think you singlehandedly did anything when "doing anything" requires the collaboration of a great many people with expertise in their field is just simply what's the phrase....hopelessly arrogant.

Well J.G. , Bonnie told me she spend more time back in January than other places because she'd read about Eric's particular case. In addition the Scarecrow Festival protest was mid Sept. Youtube videos went up early Nov. I know one there is dated Nov 4. Possibly some went up a bit before. It was not until after the youtube videos that the school eliminated "work crew" I've verified this with the school, the school informed parents Nov 11 of their impending changes.

The changes may have had nothing to do with Eric's friend's protests, however the timing is such that if the program went on for many years why did it change after the protest and after the youtubes were up. And if it changed what was wrong with the program and why didn't they appreciate this a lot sooner than only a few months ago. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that any kid taken out of school is likely to suffer in their educational progress.

Jersey Girl: And that's where you're wrong, Eric. There doesn't need to be an unfavorable light cast on West Ridge for "years to come". The program has been revamped, DHS has paid the necessary visits and so far as I'm aware, the program was revamped long before your claims were made public.

I doubt very much J.G. that the program doesn't need some major improvements, even though recently some changes have been made. For example since you are a teacher..what do you think is the purpose of having yellow, green and blue t-shirt to denote levels and do you think overall this is productive and worthwhile. I was going to ask Jared today why the school uses the different t-shirt but forgot to ask him.

Jersey Girl: Yes, it operated without oversight. THAT'S why a social worker isn't doing a single thing for the boys who were there when you were. So far as I can tell, it wasn't licensed at the time. It is licensed NOW. It is under the supervision, regulation and inspection of DHS, NOW. There isn't a social worker doing a single thing for the boys who were there when you were there because YOU ARE ADULTS.

J.G.it was licensed since 2005 and only recently is work crew eliminated though the school denies work crew is what Eric claims it is. However other students on the youtube described similar experiences with regards to work crew. The problem that I see is that youth are not free to report mistreatment, and fear reprisals. Bonnie did say she questioned youth when she was there, however I'm not confident with the system that the questions asked would be very probing. If work crew involved taking youth out of school, why is it only now not back since 2005 that DHS stepped in and did something about it. by the way, it's the school which changed the program. There is nothing to say DHS made them.

I do see a need for these schools, but I also see problems such as punitive behavior modification programs not being effective and in fact causes more emotional problems than it could ever fix. I see complete lack of legal rights to youth as problematic and the system doesn't protect them effectively. I don't think DHS state regulations solve everything and I doubt DHS employees are motivated to seek justice for youth who are classed as being problematic. I think there are times when middle to upper class parents simply want to rid themselves of a rebellious teen and are naïve as to what the program offers. There are lots of couples now a days with step parents who don't get along with the other spouse's children, split up parents who are stressed out and not able to handle teens due to other time commitment and to them these school may appear to be boarding schools which will ensure the kids get through high school.

[_Jersey Girl]

marg,

With regards to Bonnie's visits to West Ridge. That's exactly why there needs to be GAL's or some other type of case worker involved in the facility. I don't know how those would be assigned on an on-going basis for follow up. But that appears to be an integral piece that is missing from the program. Most of us that work with or have worked with DHS, recognize that DHS is buried under a mountain of bureacracy to the point of social services being [thisclose] to dysfunctional.

I do see a need for these schools, but I also see problems such as punitive behavior modification programs not being effective and in fact causes more emotional problems than it could ever fix.

I just want to share something that your post reminded me of when you speak in terms of punitive behavior mod.

Paraphrasing...

When a child doesn't know how to read, we teach.
When a child doesn't know how to do math, we teach.
When a child doesn't know how to write, we teach.
When a child doesn't know how to behave....we punish.

Hope that somehow fits with what you had in mind with your comments.

[_harmony]

A few observations and comments:

1. A misbehaving 15 year old is old enough to know what is expected in any situation in which he/she is misbehaving. Often because they know what is expected, they intentionally misbehave. There are consequences attached to behavior.

2. Personal responsibility does not start at 18 years old. Personal responsibility starts long before that. Those that accept the responsibility for their actions are those who ultimately are successful. Those who blame others for their fate only compound their immaturity and weaknesses.

3. Blended families, especially blended families with teenages who refuse to accept the responsibility for their own actions, are often unable to utilize effective behavioral consequences.

4. The rich have shipped off their problem children for umpteen generations. That's what boarding schools and military schools were invented for. The poor, on the other hand, sold their children into slavery and apprenticeships. It's a toss-up as to which was the most ineffective. Now, the rich still ship their children off; the poor just kick them out into the streets to fend for themselves.

[_Jersey Girl]

marg,

I don't plan to continue on this thread, but just watch, I'll be tempted to do so! I honestly am overly busy right now and need to get off this one. Anyway, I wanted to say that after your experiences investigating all of this (you did a great job!) I hope you'll post some last words/conclusions regarding your impressions of these types of schools, program models and especially your experiences with DHS.

You deserve three cheers for accessing DHS!

\o/\o/\o/

Bye,
Jersey Girl

[_marg]

marg,

With regards to Bonnie's visits to West Ridge. That's exactly why there needs to be GAL's or some other type of case worker involved in the facility. I don't know how those would be assigned on an on-going basis for follow up. But that appears to be an integral piece that is missing from the program. Most of us that work with or have worked with DHS, recognize that DHS is buried under a mountain of bureacracy to the point of social services being [thisclose] to dysfunctional.

At this point, I have no idea what DHS has ever done to help the youth at West Ridge. I believe Bonnie briefly mentioned that when she looked at past year's records she didn't see much done. She's new at the job, probably just getting the hang of it. I get the sense that it's the basics the regulations cover and that DHS is most concerned about basic safety, food, shelter. Whether or not the program is effective or emotionally damaging they likely don't get involved in. Theoretically parents should be looking out for their kids, it's less likely bureaucracy can do a better job than parents and Bonnie is in no position to fight the teen behavior modification schools to change their program away from punitive beh. mod even if she wanted to. It could be with elimination of "work crew" the school is getting away from punitive beh. modification..assuming that's what it used in the past.

So what is GAL's?

I just want to share something that your post reminded me of when you speak in terms of punitive behavior mod.

Paraphrasing...

When a child doesn't know how to read, we teach.
When a child doesn't know how to do math, we teach.
When a child doesn't know how to write, we teach.
When a child doesn't know how to behave....we punish.

Hope that somehow fits with what you had in mind with your comments.

I fortunately didn't have kids who got involved with the wrong crowd at school. So I didn't have issues that some parents may have with their kids involved with drugs or getting into trouble. I appreciate marihuana is not worse than alcohol and not addictive. But I do know addicts, and have seen that generally honest individuals can become dishonest, untrustworthy and the drug "crack" essentially takes over their life. So a parent with a child addicted like that I can see wanting to put in an institution, away from their environment and into a controlled environment. But in any case, I don't think punitive behavior modification is ever the answer. I think no matter how bad the behavior the individual needs to be treated with respect, praised, encouraged and they will generally rise to the occasion. If you treat someone like a criminal, they are likely to act like one.

But I do understand how difficult it can be with some individuals addicted to drugs and I'm sure there are kids getting in the sort of trouble that can be harmful to them ..in the long run and parents appreciating they are unable to control it.

[_Jersey Girl]

GAL= guardian ad litem

[_marg]

GAL= guardian ad litem

Would that entail a youth having easy access to someone outside of the school should they have any concerns they wished to discuss? If so that certainly is needed, because currently other than confide with staff at school there is no one outside who is available to them unless they go through the school, to speak with DHS. There is child protective services who I have not yet contacted but I have my doubts something like "work crew" or humiliating types of treatment they would involve themselves with.
Really the industry has got to get away from punitive behavior modification.

[_Jersey Girl]

GAL= guardian ad litem

Would that entail a youth having easy access to someone outside of the school should they have any concerns they wished to discuss? If so that certainly is needed, because currently other than confide with staff at school there is no one outside who is available to them unless they go through the school, to speak with DHS. There is child protective services who I have not yet contacted but I have my doubts something like "work crew" or humiliating types of treatment they would involve themselves with.
Really the industry has got to get away from punitive behavior modification.

Ack! You tempt me!

Yes. It would be a person outside of the school, marg. GAL's are appointed in various situations and are often attorney's or other types of case workers (social workers) whose job it is to essentially advocate for the child's rights and best interest.

For example, in divorce cases/custody determination, a GAL is appointed by a court to advocate for the best interest of the child.

The duties and such, differ from state to state. I haven't looked for anything regarding GAL's in Utah.

The GAL belongs to the child.

[_Jersey Girl]

Wait. Wait. Wait.

I just had a thought...

West Ridge is licensed for foster care by DHS. Why AREN'T there caseworkers or GAL's involved? How does the foster care piece function in reference to the residential youth treatment part?

Are these considered one and the same? Foster Care=Youth Residential Treatment, essentially parents temporarily relinquishing guardianship to the school?

This is something that needs to be clarified, marg. Seriously.