Brian Hales has recently published work demonstrating that Todd Compton misread the data on Session's first marriage. In Hales' view, Sessions considered herself divorced from her husband, and Joseph is the only viable father for her child. If so, Sessions' marriage to Joseph was not polyandrous, and the evidence for Josephine Lyons being Joseph's child is even stronger. [See: Hales, Brian C. "The Joseph Smith-Sylvia Sessions Plural Sealing: Polyandry or Polygyny?" Mormon Historical Studies 9/1 (Spring 2008): 41–57.]
Okay, no one else seems to be commenting on this: "Sessions considered herself divroced from her husband..."
Marriage is now and was then a legal act that carried with it both privileges and responsibilities. Sessions doesn't get to "consider herself divorced" until after the legal documentation has been filed and accepted by the legally granting authority, in this case, the state.
So... it doesn't matter diddly what Sessions considered herself. She was legally married to her husband, not Joseph. and being legally married is the only way to BE married. If it's not legal, it's not marriage.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
harmony wrote:So... it doesn't matter diddly what Sessions considered herself. She was legally married to her husband, not Joseph. and being legally married is the only way to BE married. If it's not legal, it's not marriage.
Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History:
Polygamy, a criminal act under the 1833 Illinois Anti-bigamy Laws, was so unacceptable to monogamous nineteenth-century American society that Smith could introduce it only in absolute secrecy. Despite Smith's explicit denials of plural marriage, stories of "spiritual wifery" had continued to spread.
harmony wrote:So... it doesn't matter diddly what Sessions considered herself. She was legally married to her husband, not Joseph. and being legally married is the only way to BE married. If it's not legal, it's not marriage.
Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History:
Polygamy, a criminal act under the 1833 Illinois Anti-bigamy Laws, was so unacceptable to monogamous nineteenth-century American society that Smith could introduce it only in absolute secrecy. Despite Smith's explicit denials of plural marriage, stories of "spiritual wifery" had continued to spread.
It doesn't surprise me at all that the same man who could pen the 12th Article of Faith could encourage his followers to break the law. Such a dishonest heart not only could but did exactly that, repeatedly. Adultery, dishonesty, criminal behavior. God will not be mocked.
That doesn't excuse Sessions, though, or any of the other women... or men.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
SatanWasSetUp wrote: If Joseph was married to all these women why wouldn't he have sex with them? Isn't that one of the things husbands and wives do? That's why I always laugh when a sweet LDS woman says Joseph Smith had plural wives, but he only had sex with Emma. Somehow I think it helps LDS women cope with Polygamy if they can convince themselves that Joseph only had sex with Emma. It somehow makes him more faithful as a husband. If there was plural marriage, it's safe to assume there was sex. LOL.
The evidence is indeed overwhelming, that Joseph Smith had sex with at least some of his plural wives. People can either burry their heads on this issue, or they can accept the overwhelming evidence on this issue.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
Okay, no one else seems to be commenting on this: "Sessions considered herself divroced from her husband..."
Marriage is now and was then a legal act that carried with it both privileges and responsibilities. Sessions doesn't get to "consider herself divorced" until after the legal documentation has been filed and accepted by the legally granting authority, in this case, the state.
So... it doesn't matter diddly what Sessions considered herself. She was legally married to her husband, not Joseph. and being legally married is the only way to BE married. If it's not legal, it's not marriage.
Well, at least a few of the LDS Apologists are now acknowledgedly and admitting that Josephine Rosetta Lyon Fisher is indeed very likely to have been the Biological Daughter of Joseph Smith. That is a Good start.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
why me, the Catholic with the Joseph Smith avatar, do you have a split personality?
You defend polygamy for the leaders of the Mormon church and yet the Catholic leaders practice celibacy. They are 180 degrees apart from each other. Which is right? How can you believe/practice/defend both practices?
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably. bcspace
The Following important information is from the Book, 'In Sacred Loneliness', By Todd Compton:
Because Reorganized Latter Day Saints claimed that Joseph Smith was not really married polygamously in the full (i.e., sexual) sense of the term, Utah Mormons (including Smith's wives) affirmed repeatedly that he had physical sexual relations with them—despite the Victorian conventions in nineteenth-century American culture which ordinarily would have prevented any mention of sexuality.
For instance, Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner stated that she knew of children born to Smith's plural wives: "I know he had six wives and I have known some of them from childhood up. I know he had three children. They told me. I think two are living today but they are not known as his children as they go by other names." Melissa Lott Willes testified that she had been Smith's wife "in very deed." Emily Partridge Young said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him, and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him.
Other early witnesses also affirmed this. Benjamin Johnson wrote "On the 15th of May ... the Prophet again Came and at my hosue [house] ocupied the Same Room & Bed with my Sister that the month previous he had ocupied with the Daughter of the Later Bishop Partridge as his wife." According to Joseph Bates Noble, Smith told him he had spent a night with Louisa Beaman.
Well, I have to admit that it does sound strange. But I don't tend to look at it from the vantage point of the 21st century. I tend to go back in time and see reasons for it back then. And I think that the explanation is suitable for me. Now I know that Bushman wagers a guess that sexual relations could have occured. And perhaps it did. But that really doesn't concern me too much. What concerns me is whether or not for that moment in church history, polyagamy was from god. And I must say that Mormons can make a case that it did come from god. It certainly put the early saints to a test as to whether they were serious in their testimony. William Law failed but many succeeded and prospered, especially in Utah. I don't see Joseph as a horney toad. Most of these marriages, as I have noted, occured within a two year period from 1841 to 1843. To the critics, Joe was a lustful guy. But for me, he just seems like a guy in a hurry trying to do what he thought was required of him.
I think that for most men on this forum, horney toadism will not require that they marry another 20 wives to have sex with them in a two year period. The best of the guys on this forum will never be able to do it. They would be either in the nut house or dead from exhaustion and stress.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Pokatator wrote:why me, the Catholic with the Joseph Smith avatar, do you have a split personality?
You defend polygamy for the leaders of the Mormon church and yet the Catholic leaders practice celibacy. They are 180 degrees apart from each other. Which is right? How can you believe/practice/defend both practices?
I tend to look at Mormonism holistically and not piece by piece. The critics here take a defined stance: Joseph Smith was a horny toad. I cannot take that stance. Also if critics would hedge their bets a little and leave open the possibility that he wasn't a horney toad, the critics and I would find much to discuss. But this definite horney toadism that the critics have taken gets my backside up.
Now as far as the catholics go well, just yesterday I got into a discussion as to whether Mormons were christian with a catholic friend of mine. This friend is rather dogmatic, opus deiish type. He was a little shocked that I considered Mormons to be christian. I have my ideas about faith. I see goodness in catholicism and in Mormonism. And at this moment I am more involved with catholicism. But I cannot say that the Mormons are wrong. I have no proof that they are wrong. And I cannot say that the catholics are wrong. I just know that I am more committed to the catholic church at this moment. As one nun said to me: We will know more when we die. And I agree with that.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Brackite wrote: Well, at least a few of the LDS Apologists are now acknowledgedly and admitting that Josephine Rosetta Lyon Fisher is indeed very likely to have been the Biological Daughter of Joseph Smith. That is a Good start.
They are? Where? I need to see this. I think that the evidence is still out.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Brackite wrote: Well, at least a few of the LDS Apologists are now acknowledgedly and admitting that Josephine Rosetta Lyon Fisher is indeed very likely to have been the Biological Daughter of Joseph Smith. That is a Good start.
They are? Where? I need to see this. I think that the evidence is still out.